73 RS clone - Update or backdate?

iwanna73rs · 02-07-2005, 11:02 AM

I am interested in a 73 RS clone, but not sure which approach makes more sense - Updating or Backdating.

(I'm leaning towards backdating after reading several of the backdate threads here.) I have found a 77S 2.7 with a good body & Interior, but in need of some engine work (oil leaks, etc). I would expect to rebuild the engine, possibly to 2.7 RS Spec.

Are there any particular model years that are superior or inferior candidates to serve as the basis of the clone?

How is the quality of the fiberglass hoods, bumbers, etc from companies like GT Racing (or others)?

Any input/information would be appreciated!

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

Welcome from a fellow floridian... Use the search button - it can be your friend. Just use key words and you wil be suprised with the wealth of information here.

geof33 · 02-07-2005, 11:32 AM

Wow,

The best way to go about this info is the search button... as guy doing a back date... There are many reasons this makes sense and is practicle... But saving an older tub is always a good thing...

Zeke · 02-07-2005, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by geof33
Wow,

The best way to go about this info is the search button... as guy doing a back date... There are many reasons this makes sense and is practicle... But saving an older tub is always a good thing...

In what way is he really saving an old tub when he is gonna cut on the rear fenders?

I vote for backdate. And if you don't like the RS look later on, or want to re-establish market value when selling, unbolt your stuff.

geof33 · 02-07-2005, 12:50 PM

Milt,

Good point... realise when I see RS I automatically tack on the R for RSR... So I agree, for an RS update (which it is) backdate...

htron435 · htron435's Garage

I'd consider backdating an SC -- galvanized body, flares are there already. Plus you have an engine that is much more reliable (and a much better engine case to build on). Either way it will be costly, especially if you're gonna go the whole nine yards. You could always backdate to the '74 Carrera look -- also a great look, and a heck of a lot easier to achieve.

Todd Simpson · 02-07-2005, 01:17 PM

You could say a '77 would be the worst candidate as it has the wrong fenders in front and no flares in the rear, requiring the most body work.

At the same time it has the Al trailing arms and front crossmember, 915 transmission and additional rustproofing over an early car. Those are nice upgrades to a pre-'74 and are not cheap to do.

For those reasons I'd start with a post '76 car and backdate...unless you have to deal with smog....then you want an earlier one...

Overall I would say avoid rust no matter how sweet the deal. Next, plan the project before you buy. You might think a "roller" is the best buy because you plan to upgrade everything, but the existing parts have value and can help fund the project. An ideal candidate is probably a complete, cosmetically challenged "driver". A side benefit to that is you can enjoy driving it as you work on it.

iwanna73rs · 02-07-2005, 01:32 PM

Thanks for Replies!

My priority was to get galvanized body with no rust. I figured I'd have to add steel flares to the rear, and use the fiberglass fenders w/ integrated flares up front.

Re: the 74 Carrera, I really like the look of the long hood, so I'm shooting for a 73 style.

Good points regarding the non-2.7 engine for upgrade/reliability, and the ability to sell off what I don't need to fund the project.

I think I could tackle the mechanical upgrades (armed w/ Wayne's books), but the interior and body stuff is out of my league!

Zeke · 02-07-2005, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by iwanna73rs

I think I could tackle the mechanical upgrades (armed w/ Wayne's books), but the interior and body stuff is out of my league!

I take it you don't want fiberglass fenders, hood, bumpers and a duck tail. That would be far and away the easiest way to go about this and I think if you can unbolt the orginals, you might be able to bolt up the new. Maybe with some help from a local with some experience.

Joeaksa · 02-07-2005, 04:06 PM

iwanna (name would be nice),

I would NEVER backdate... its just too much work! Now that I have that out of my system...

Look here:

85 Backdate to 72RS/3.6 proceeding nicely!

Backdated my 85 model 911 and love it. It looks to everyone like a 72Rs but has the creature comforts of the later cars, AND the zinc coated body which means its a lot less likely to rust, which was a big deal with the early cars. I owned a '72 model and it rusted out before we could save it...

PM me if you have more questions. Also, Souk and several others have done this and all love it, so look around.

JoeA

geof33 · 02-07-2005, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Todsimpson
You could say a '77 would be the worst candidate as it has the wrong fenders in front and no flares in the rear, requiring the most body work.

Uh... did I miss something? Anything 74 and above would be fine... You would need to deal with a few minor issue of fit for the rear bumper and the front... But it is managable, and most is fairly easy DIY... If you are not doing a race motor go with a good solid SC, galvanized, easy to do etc... Heck even move into a Carrera, body wise your are 85% there... Bumps, tail, front fenders, hood in glass. Fiberglass requires some fitment, but with tools it is doable.

It all depends on how much you want to spend... If you get a really solid runner, then the overall cost is less to do the conversion.

I would NOT recommend a roller to start... Get a complete car, preferably running.

I will have about 25,000 into my RSR (maybe a bit less) and that is without getting crazy with suspension mods etc. My motor will be right in the 9-10,000 range when it is all said and done... and the money is still flowing...

Todd Simpson · 02-07-2005, 04:30 PM

Yes, you did! The question was is it better to update or backdate? A '77 will require work to the fenders in the front *and* rear. At least an SC would already have flares, or a longhood would at least already have the right front fenders.

That being said, it wouldn't stop me from using a '77. There are too many other factors to consider.

iwanna73rs · 02-07-2005, 05:56 PM

Zeke - Right now I'm planning on using the fiberglass hood, bumpers, and front fenders and ducktail. Those seem to be bolt-ons but will probably require some finishing.

Joe - Thanks for the thread link- I hadn't seen that one before. I've been following your progress along with Souk and some others. That and a few "Excellence" articles have really inspired me to take the plunge.

Geoff - I was estimating $5k for the car, $5k for the body mods & paint, and $5k to update the engine. Of course, there may be a factor of 2 missing somewhere...

geof33 · 02-07-2005, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Todsimpson
Yes, you did! The question was is it better to update or backdate? A '77 will require work to the fenders in the front *and* rear. At least an SC would already have flares, or a longhood would at least already have the right front fenders.

That being said, it wouldn't stop me from using a '77. There are too many other factors to consider.

Tod, no offense but you are mistaken... Cars from 74 on would have the correct rear flares... The issue from 74 on is the rear deck area. This needs to be removed to allow for the correct bumper for the 73 look... Any car post 73 will need a hood and front fenders, the rear flars are fine...

This is one of the mods that must be done to allow for the rear bumper...

big RSR update, a how to... lots of pics (long)

geof33 · 02-07-2005, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by iwanna73rs

Geoff - I was estimating $5k for the car, $5k for the body mods & paint, and $5k to update the engine. Of course, there may be a factor of 2 missing somewhere...

Add 5k to that and you will probably be fine... BUT finding the right car in good running condition for 5k... good luck... If you buy an old car, budget in a top end rebuild or a total rebuild... ANOTHER 5k to 10K depending on who does the work...not trying to burst a bubble, but it adds up QUICK!!!!

iwanna73rs · 02-07-2005, 08:03 PM

well it sounds like you're recommendation is an SC. That would probably add 5k to the initial cost i was thinking of for the 77s.

i guess i need to do a closer estimate on the engine mods, etc. to see if it does make more sense to get a 3 litre car, instead.

geof33 · 02-07-2005, 08:24 PM

Really, the best thing to do is go top down... In otherwords, what is your MAX to spend on the project... Give us this $$ and we can steer you in a better direction...

Lot's of big projects going on, so lot's of info on the Pro's/Con's...

randywebb · 02-08-2005, 09:24 AM

I would get a '72T.

IMHO, the only reason to get a later (bumper) car and then make it look like an early car is if you really really need the galvanized body. It's a lot more work and expense. Or maybe I don't understand what you want to do?

SalazarS2K · 02-08-2005, 10:40 AM

It depends. Budget is usually the biggest concern and alot of that money can be saved by doing your own labor. Do you really want to start from scratch and build a car from the chassis on up or pick up a project where someone left off like this one:

FS - 1973 1/2 911 'T' Non-sunroof Coupe

No affiliation with this seller.

Since I don't have the talent or ability to build my own car, I bought someone else's completed project and will be making my own mods to suit my liking. If you look around hard enough on these forums, there are some RS clones that pop up from time to time that will meet most of your criteria. Here are mine in order of importance - a nicely painted RS body, motor, suspension, and interior. Here is a picture for motivation.

iwanna73rs · 02-08-2005, 01:37 PM

Thanks for the great input guys.

I was hoping to do most of the work myself, and spend less than $20k.
Part of the attraction to this project is to "build" it with my 3 boys (cheap labor!). The I can gradually improve the car's engine suspension, etc in phases.

Salazar - That's an awesome car ya have there - definitely what I aspire to. I am considering picking up a "project", but I don't want to bring this thing home in boxes! The wife would kill me in my sleep...