On the Way to Turbo a SC

TOO RUF · TOO RUF's Garage

I've purchased the exhaust and Turbo, now I need to fabricate Intake parts. I was thinking of a fabricating low and high pressure intakes like the BAE Kit. But how about putting the high pressure side from the Turbo directly into the airbox? Then using a cone filter for the Air Cleaner. I have a Metal aftermarket CIS airbox installed already. Any Ideas?

turbo6bar · 02-23-2005, 05:22 AM

CIS air meter is not designed to read air under positive pressure. So, you must run metered air to the turbo and then back, Or, ditch CIS and go EFI.
jurgen

sammyg2 · 02-23-2005, 05:56 AM

Yep, if you are going to use the CIS to meter the fuel, you MUST use the air metering sensor and the throttle body.
Aint no gettin away from that unless you go to a different type of fuel injection.

I'd bet that if you are patient you can find BAE boots for the throttle body and air flow sensor, after that it will be very easy.
The only other thing that is a bit of a pain is hooking up the oil supply and return for the turbo.

Jims5543 · 02-23-2005, 07:31 AM

I wondered about this. Does anything need to be done internally to the engine. Like lower compression pistons? Or do you just shoot for low boost small turbo?

Also, have you considered running a stand alone ECU something like a Halteck, Microtech or Motec?

Are there fuel issues after adding a turbo? Do you need to upgrade the fuel system?

How about timing I would imagine it needs to be retarded as the MAP increases do you just retard it manually or can you re-flash the ECU to accomodate?

Sorry for all the questions.

RickM · RickM's Garage

Jim, perhaps you can use the Megasquirt CIS/EFI conversion sold by Pelican. (Or one of it's members).

Jims5543 · 02-23-2005, 08:23 AM

I am not trying to take business away from Pelican Parts here I am just pointing out there is some really good technology available.

I did a search on Megasquirt - I am not really clear on what it exactly does and does not do.

It seems to be a fuel system.

I am mearly pointing out that adding forced induction requires a lot more than just slapping on a turbo. Timing and fuel need to be addressed. I was reading another thread where the guy used a microfueler to basically dump more fuel via a pressure switch set at 3.5 lbs. While affective its not the most efficient route to go.

Haltech makes a unit called the F-5 it monitors MAP and adds fuel via a single or double injectors accordingly. Its programable and you can add more or less fuel through the RPM band as needed not just dump fuel based on a random on/off point in the MAP.

Something like a Motec will allow you not not only control you're fuel and timing but it can also control you're boost via a $25 solenoid it can also control you're cold start via tempurature dependant enrichment and it can also enrich if the engine is running hot to help cool the cylinders.

I understand some are doing this swap on a budget but one should really consider using a stand alone setup the adjustability alone is priceless. Plus so much can be removed from the engine bay not to mention tossing a 15 year old engine harness and replacing it with a brand new one.

TOO RUF · TOO RUF's Garage

I plan on using 5 psi boost to start. Then once I get the system woking I will be doing a valve job, rings, gaskets, head studs, ETC. Then down the road I will add a megasquirt EFi system and a Intercooler.

RickM · RickM's Garage

Mega Squirt II will take care of ignition as well.
http://www.megasquirt.info/ms2/

Jims5543 · 02-23-2005, 10:58 AM

Thanks for the link Rick. I have been educated. I searched Google for it and didn't come up with much.

Magasquirt is basically a stand alone ECU. It looks preety cool actually I am going to dig around and see if I can find the laptop software and take a look.

Thanks again that looks like a good setup indeed.

RickM · RickM's Garage

No problem, Jim,

Not sure if you saw this thread from Tony (Tbitz) on EFI conversion using megasquirt. CIS to EFI kit

Hopefully he can chime in here with his intimate knowledge of the system.

Potentially a great way to go when on a budget.

Jims5543 · 02-23-2005, 11:10 AM

LOL!! Yes it looks like a good bang for the buck.

My Motec cost me close to 5K when all was said and done. It feels wrong to call and buy a code to punch into you're laptop to unlock certain features of you're ECU. When I called to unlock my Data Logging it cost me $700 for 7 digits to punch into my laptop. It just seemed wrong.

sammyg2 · 02-23-2005, 11:31 AM

It all boils down to how much boost you want to run.

Stock CIS will properly meter the air and add required fuel without any modifications, to a point. Usually around 6 or 7 psi depending on the engine and fuel. Same with timing, not necessary to modify timing until you get into high boost levels.

The idea here isn't to try and get 600 hp from a 3.0 or a 2.7, it's to improve the power by 40 to 50%. That can be done without changing pistons or spending a great deal of time or money on an aftermarket computerized system.

My engine is very happy at 7 psi boost without additional fuel enrichment, or timing modifications, or computers, or intercooler, etc.

I figure 7 psi on my engine is good for an additional 80 hp or thereabouts. That is more than enough to get your attention.
I could get to 9 psi (and prolly will eventually) by limiting the mechanical advance by 5 degrees and adding a 7th injector. That would but me up in the 300 hp range, plenty for a "stock" 3 liter.
It is also very cheap and reliable performance.