I have a wonderful image in mind of the scene in "Fargo" where the big Native American guy takes off his belt and whups the shiz outta Steve Buscemi. :D

reading this thread is making me mad.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

your have a very beautiful car (from the pics). It's a shame what happened to it and now you want to sell it?

I am obviously an optimist - I expect to be treated as I would treat others. If the wrench was in the wrong I hope he would be honest, hence I had the car taken back to him. Now I wonder if I have done the right thing.

Unexpected lottery win or inheritance aside, I am not currently in a position to be able to run $3000+ to fix the car. Under the circumstances I really don't know what to do, especially as the car has been with the shop for 4 days since the incident. Could the timing be re-adjusted if the engine will not turn?

In all seriousness - what would members of the board do if you were in my position? I value your opinions.

We've pretty much told you, Nigel. If they will not change their tune immediately and start talking straight about what caused the engine damage, I would have it towed out to another shop ASAP. Someone above has suggested one, (don't know how close it is to you), but you need to start exercising your options. This is too big of a boo-boo, particularly in light of your financial situation, to just let slide. :D

You need to ask the shop if a jury of your peers would also think it was a coincidence that your car craps out after 9 miles and $1000 valve/camshaft expense... Sounds to me like they forgot something when they buttoned it back up...

Sorry to hear about your problems, it is a great looking car, hope all turns out that you get to keep your car.

Michael

Noah P has the best idea for getting a second opinion. Maybe grab a PCA tech guy to recommend a shop to look at the car and then go from there. If the first shop is at fault (according to shop 2) then I'd have the 2nd shop do the repair and have the first shop pay for it. Shop 1 is going to demand to do it because he can do it wholesale - it might be worthwhile to pay shop 2 the difference - depending on shop 1's attitude

I would NOT sell this car. It will cost you more to get back into another 911 you want (in the current market) then it will to fix the car. If you can't get it fixed right away - then store it and get a 800-1000 beater until the dispute is resolved or you save enough to get it fixed. You should be able to resell the beater and break even or just lose a little. Lot less than losing the value of your cool looking 911 (in a unique color).

Good luck....

wow.....yes....please, please do what these guys are saying.....that car is absolutely gorgeous! i would CRY if the cost of a rebuild would force you to sell it......get the car out of their hands, get a few reputable opinons right away....and make sure and let the current shop know that you want some answers .....and if you don't get them, or they continue to feed you this bull$h!t then tell them you are calling a lawyer if they refuse responsibility.

Listen to the advise get it to another garage and get it checked out. Things happen people make mistakes so let them pay for the repairs. atleast for the labor.

I will contact Joe at Germantech (thanks Jeremy).

Couple of final questions:

If the tensioner/timing has been 'fixed' (supposing the installation was at fault) could you still be able to ascertain the cause of the engine failure?

Could you reset the timing with the engine 'locked'?

Cheers guys.

I mention Joe because he has serviced both P-cars that I have owned. He's very straight with me - as in - don't waste your money on this upgrade, you can probably get xx,xxx miles out of this before you need to do anything, several things he has fixed or taken a look at concerns that I have had and has not charged me. He's taken the time to show me an engine that he was building that was the same type as my old 1990 c2 targa that had the head blow by. He didn't need to -

He's probably saved me thousands with the advice he has given me.

Nigel,
Sounds like the motor needs to come out and be opened up to really tell what happened. The reality is the shop should pay for the repair, but will be a legal battle to do so. Try your local attorney general, and better business bureau for help.
If you are going to sell the car as is, I would be interested in purchasing it as a project needing a rebuilt motor. I will PM you my phone # if you want to talk about it.
Ken

If the engine is seized, you will not be able to retime the cams. However, it's as easy as claiming that you over-revved the engine (by misshifting) and that the cam timing got messed up after the pistons hit hte valves.

This is a real complicated case. I would try hard to talk some sense into the shop before having the engine pulled and disassembled by another shop. After that all bets are off. See what they say, if they realize that you aren't going away. Also, can you find a flat six expert in the local PCA that can come with you or support you?

Hope this helps.

I agree with others. An engine rebuild shouldn't make you sell the car. If nothing else, store it until you can do it. Get Wayne's book and do it yourself! ;)

George

I have spoken to few local P-shops and they are of the same opinion - it is perhaps too much of a 'coincidence' that the failure occured so close to the installation of the tensioners. However, they were at pains to point out that it is not impossible (though possibility is somewhat small) that a failure occured through no fault of the wrench. I would never cast blame unless I could prove it and as such I am giving the shop the benefit of the doubt at the moment.

Ultimately it needs stripping down to see where the problem lies. If there is then blame to be attributed I would have to try and prove it - tricky when the car would have been removed from the workshop.

The original shop wants around $700 to strip the top end. If it is a single valve then he reckons around $2500-3000, more if there is additional damage. Basically I run the risk of dropping $700 (on top of $1009 for the 'update') to find out I cannot afford to get it fixed. Rock / Hard Place.

Don't shops carry insurance for mishaps like these? A friend of mine took their car to a shop for an oil change, and they left the drain plug loose, losing all of its oil on the way home and seizing the engine. The shop's insurance paid for a new engine.

That car is gorgeous, by the way.

If you can garage the 911 for a while and fix it later ...do it. A beater daily driver can be found for less than $1000.
Its a real looker.
If you are going to part with the old girl, please sell her to someone who care for her the same as you do.. or better.
My first choice is to see you fix it, my second choice is to let me buy it, fix it, and care for it.

Sell 748 instead! You know you want 916/996/998 in future! Too much invested with love, to sell that car.

nigel,
I am afraid I agree with a911. If you MUST sell something sell the Duck, or trade it for a car you can drive till your finances are better.

I love Ducatis as well, but in all honesty, a yellow 748 is eminently replaceable any time in the future that you choose. that 911E targa will be G O N E forever...;-(

Those guys are right, this is fishy and I would fight it, but fighting it is going to be hard if they are playing dumb. Proving anything is going to be harder. And you need a car. And at some point they jsut will stop talking to you...

I'd go in between. Assuming they are still sorry and you have been polite, and that the shop does not totally suck, I would guilt-trip them into fixing the engine for me at cost. They should be OK with that.... Can you take a loan or something for a while?

do not sell the car. period. scrape up $500-$1K and buy an old honda to get around until you sort this out. Selling now would not make financial sense imho (or emotional).