Value please - Page 4

DC_Targa · 03-11-2005, 07:02 PM

original tensioner partial collapse=
valve/piston contact=
crack initiation=
low cycle fatigue failure after tensioner repair?

Similar scenarios happen frequently in the Aerospace industry. there is always a cause and effect relationship...

Jays72T · 03-19-2005, 03:21 PM

Any update on this? I really hate to see good people get shafted and hope the shop stands up to the mistake.

nigel911 · nigel911's Garage

Had the car towed to another shop last Thursday, waiting for prognosis. Will update the board as soon as I hear anything.

nigel911 · nigel911's Garage

Just spoke to the shop, here's the current situation - apparently lots of metallic debris in the oil, some of which looks like bearing material. His initial opinion without a complete teardown is either oil starvation/lack of oil or a 'foreign object' somehow may have entered the engine and caused a seizure.

Looks like a top end rebuild may have just turned into a full engine rebuild. Nice.

Engine now being completely stripped apart to allow further investigation. Will keep you posted, a great start to the week.

CarreraS2 · 03-21-2005, 08:40 AM

Good luck!

A shop has you engine opened up to put in tensioners, change the oil, etc. . . . 9 miles later engine seizes up from a foreign object somehow getting into the engine . . . hmmm.

pwd72s · 03-21-2005, 08:41 AM

Nigel, you have our sympathy...we're talking lots of $ for a rebuild here, so waiting for other shop's opinion. Sounds like it may be time to start thinking about legal help...

Mysterytrain · 03-21-2005, 11:09 AM

I've been following this thread with interest. Many moons ago my 78sc and a tensioner failure. The engine never jumped time but sounded like a coffee grinder back there. I was 500 miles from home on a holiday weekend. The car was flatbedded to a dealer and monday morning they started the car up it was fine! I drove it home and had the tensioners replaced locally. My point is..the tensioners can fail but as long as the chains don't jump a tooth you should be ok. My first thought was maybe the shop took the car out for some spirited test driving after the work was done..minus oil..or without letting her warm up? Then of course, they fill it up and park it out front and give it back to its owner! Any thoughts on this theory? Nigel, keep us up to date on this.

CarreraS2 · 03-21-2005, 11:14 AM

If you do conclude that the shop is at fault, you should consider trying to get the claim tendered to their insurance company.

When I worked in a shop 20 years ago, one of the guys doing a major service drained the differential, but then forgot to refill it! When he got back from the test drive, there was an odd noise coming from the rear end. Oops.

It was tendered to the insurance co. and they paid to replace the differential, no problem.

The mechanic did end up getting fired, though!

ken_xman · 03-21-2005, 11:35 AM

The shop ruined your engine and you are quite foolish if you do not confront them. By the way take lots of photos in the dis-assembly. The judge will like that.
Time to get tough.... nice guys do sometimes finish last. Make them pay for the entire repair bill from the second shop. Don't back down... they put you in this situation.

Jays72T · 03-21-2005, 11:55 AM

ken_xman is right, take pics and confront them. I hope you get evidence that clearly shows the shop is at fault and they agree to take care of it but I'd start looking at what legal steps you need to go through if the shop refuses to resolve the issue. Please keep us posted.

Thanks,

Jay

cnielsen · 03-21-2005, 01:54 PM

If you do not find the mechanics shop at fault...

Look for a good replacement engine and sell yours in pieces. You will be amazed that you can almost break even on a swap like that. I replaced an old magnesium 2.0L with a 2.7RS spec motor. In the end, the 2.7 cost me $300 after I sold all the parts from the 2.0L! I did all the labor for the swap which saves $... Lets see... $300 for 70 extra hp??? Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

Good luck, sorry about your misfortune...

nigel911 · nigel911's Garage

Trust me on this one - if I get conclusive evidence that the shop was at fault or the mechanical failure of the engine was directly attributable to their actions (or lack thereof) I will take every step to ensure I get satisfaction. No more Mr Nice Guy.

As much as I hate to admit it, I have already spoken to my attorney and given him a brief outline of the circumstances. Once I am armed with all the facts I will be in a better position to take action if necessary.

Should know more by Thursday/Friday, will keep you guys posted.

I am currently travelling in a Chevrolet Classic renter, to call it 'driving' would be stretching the truth. Possibly the most bland, un-emotive car ever produced; utterly souless. Even worse than the Ford Focus I had last week.

I miss my car.

niner11 · 03-26-2005, 12:32 PM

any updates?

nigel911 · nigel911's Garage

Didn't hear from the shop on Friday - plan to call them Monday. Will post as soon as I have news...

350HP930 · 03-27-2005, 08:57 AM

A good shop should cater to appearances, even if they did do nothing wrong.

The shop that I work for rebuilt a 440 dodge motor for a motorhome that ended up becoming a comeback. As in the case of many first time rebuilds we reused the exhaust valves because they were all in spec.

About 300 miles into its first maiden voyage the head broke off of one of the exhaust valves and completely trashed the motor.

We could have dismissed it as not our fault since it was not our workmanship that caused the failure but for the sake of our reputation and the fact that we warranty our work we ate the entire cost of the rebuild with the exception of the cost of a new set of valves.

I too suspect your shop is trying to pass the buck, but I would not pass judgement until your motor gets an autotopsy from an independent expert.

nigel911 · nigel911's Garage

350HP930

If you read the thread in its entirety you will see I have been very careful not to lay blame on the shop (or even name them). I will ONLY do that IF the cause of the engine failure can be established and proven to be directly related to the work carried out on the car. Fair's fair. That's why the car was towed to another shop for an independent opinion.

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

Nigel - you have been much more the gentleman than I would have been - kudos for you taking the high road.

kycarguy 935 · 03-27-2005, 04:39 PM

I use to work at a GM shop many years ago and 99% of cars we worked on was GM. Some regular customer asked us to do his timing belt on a 16 valve Mitsubishi car. Our mechanic messed up on the timing somehow and we lost alot of money on the job. We rented the customer a car and got it fixed for him as fast as we could. No shop wants to mess up but this is part of business. Its all on how the business handles their mistakes. Needless to say we always had business when many others around us was slow. We really catered to our customers.

Good luck Nigel on your outcome. I agree will most everyone else that the shop may have made some mistake.

John Druckrey · 03-28-2005, 07:25 AM

A relatively simple failure analysis of the valve will determine if the valve failed because of fatigue (cracked), or, failed because it was smitten by the piston (valve timing). If the later I would bet they (the well respected shop) screwed-up.

nigel911 · nigel911's Garage

Well, the jury is out. Glad I didn't accuse the shop of poor workmanship or lay blame at their feet. Apparently just bad luck and a coincidence the engine failed when it did - a rod seized then threw its bearing guts into my engine, lots of metal flying about wreaking engine havoc. The shop even advise discarding the tensioners as they may have metal in them - total usage: 9 miles. Yes, the engine still had oil in it.

One question remains - why couldn't the engine have failed before I dropped $1009 dollars into it? A case of what we call in England, 'Sods law'.