Shoould I start with Sway bars or Torsion Bars?

JackT · 03-10-2005, 06:21 AM

I started a tread on what to do 1st on on my suspension and have gotten some pm's recommending to start with sway bars, and others to start with the torsion bars. Which should I start with? I am also going to put new shocks all around. I do not want to do both because it would be too expensive. I also have Bridgestone SO3's and Hawk break pads all around with the ATE Power discs on the front. Also have a strut bar on the front.

JackT · 03-10-2005, 06:22 AM

By the way, I will use the car for drivers ed and weekend driving.

Superman · 03-10-2005, 06:28 AM

Your shocks are probably worn, though I do not know your car's mileage. Shocks will make the greatest single difference and if you do just one thing, that's it.

Next I would suggest replacing suspension bushings. Front control arm bushings (4) and rear spring plate bushings. But the trouble with replacing bushings is that it's fairly major surgery, and the torsion bars are right there when you get to the bushings. Slightly stiffer rear torsion bars would be nice, but stock ones are actually fairly acceptable. A nice combo is 21/28.

Sway bars are important, yes, but the adjustable ones are by far the best and the front one should be a through-the-body unit, which again is major surgery. The rear can be non-adjustable, as long as it matches the front one and the front is adjustable.

masraum · 03-10-2005, 07:12 AM

Sways are cheaper and easier to install and can make a pretty big difference to the way your car handles. The Ruf yellowbird used a stock '88 (or was it '87) Carrera suspension except for bigger sways and, I think, slightly differently valved Bilsteins.

If you think you are eventually going to go hog wild for DE's you will probably end up with both anyway, so start with the torsions, then you can also do the bushings which are probably shot too. Then you'll have a good base to work from.

Sways should be used to fine tune, and torsions should do most of the work.

KTL · 03-10-2005, 08:20 AM

Another reason to do torsion bars before sway bars is, soft torsion bars can allow the stiffer sway bars to break their mountings. This is because of the longer suspension travel that soft springs can allow. Sometimes the through-body sway bars will tear through the body like the topic below, if you have the bars set to max stiffness and the sway bar geometry doesn't allow for smooth, non-binding movement.

Sway bar pulls through tub sheetmetal

ted · ted's Garage

Not to complicate your decision but your T bars and shocks should be considered together. Are you current shocks right for the T bars of your choice?
I might start there and then get adjustable sway bars.

Craig 930 RS · 03-10-2005, 09:27 AM

Shocks
Torsions
Sways

In that order for your age car

randywebb · 03-10-2005, 10:05 AM

The sway- bars will only affect the car on a bump or when one wheel is loaded relatively more than the opposite wheel.

I would do them together and after tires & shocks. If you have to do one first, I'd do the t-bars.

Obviously, you want to do the bushings when you take everything off for the t-bars.

I'd save my $$ until I could do everything together except shocks & tires...

Noel · 03-10-2005, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Craig911
Shocks
Torsions
Sways

In that order for your age car

I second that.

JackT · 03-10-2005, 10:20 AM

Which busings will have need to replace while changing out the torsion bars and shocks?

greglepore · 03-10-2005, 10:32 AM

The rear require that the springplates come off, so do rear bushings for sure. You can do the fronts tbars without removing the a-arms, but having seen how the bushings on my 130000mi '85 looked last weekend, I'd do it now, but there isn't any real penalty if you wait, unless you're going to have the car professionally corner balanced after putting the new bars in. If you're going to use a stock style front swaybar, but heavier (ie the late Carrera one) then I'd do the shebang as a package, b/c it isn't easy to change out the factory style bar with the a-arms both in place

Removal of the a-arms isn't as big a deal as you might think, just rmove the ball joint pin and the 5 bolts holding in the arm, after removing the torsion.

JohnJL · 03-10-2005, 10:40 AM

If you do them in pieces, you'll be paying for 3 or more alighments/corner balances. You might be better off saving and do all at once.

KTL · 03-10-2005, 01:24 PM

Actually you can do the shocks alone without disturbing the alignment settings. That's not to say the alignment won't change-rear ride height will most likely rise with new shocks back there. All i'm saying is the actual nuts & bolts for the alignment are not touched when doing shocks.

Craig 930 RS · 03-10-2005, 01:54 PM

Aren't the front struts removed, thus the alignment goes adios?

greglepore · 03-10-2005, 02:14 PM

Not with Boge struts, at least. Just remove the top nut, push em down and swing them out from under the fender.

KTL · 03-10-2005, 06:47 PM

All 911s from 1970-1989, excepting those 70-73 cars that were equipped with the spring struts, used the same 911.341.018.00 upper strut mount.

Removal of the shock absorber is the same for all of them, be it Boge, Koni, or Bilstein, just like Greg described. Take off the top lock nut, push the shock absorber shaft thru the mount and the upper part of the strut assy. is now disconnected without disturbing alignment settings held by the upper strut mount.

The type of strut insert will determine how to get the insert out of the strut body.

Boge inserts (some inserts are integral units and have the guts & oil right inside the tube) are held into the strut tube by a collar nut @ the top of the tube.

Bilstein are held by the collar nut and a tension pin @ the bottom of the strut.

I don't know how Koni are fastened to the strut tube........

dd74 · 03-10-2005, 10:40 PM

I'd go with shocks. Try Bilstein sports if possible - and on all four corners. Surprisingly, no one's brought up alignment, corner balance, or camber changes, all of which will improve your handling and be less invasive and labor intensive to your wallet.

Craig 930 RS · 03-11-2005, 06:34 AM

Same shocks on all 4 corners results in way too much damping up front vs. rear -

dd74 · 03-11-2005, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Craig911
Same shocks on all 4 corners results in way too much damping up front vs. rear -

Yeah? It was a factory option on the later SC. I don't think they would have done it if there was no benefit to be gained.

ted · ted's Garage

If I were setting a car up for the track a factory tuned suspension might have a little too much understeer for me. What size t bars are going on this car? That should relate to what shocks you chose to contol them?