Anyone fab up some swaybars?

[lateapex911]

Well, I'm getting things together to rebuild my '73s original suspension. So far it's the standard stuff. Elephant polybronze A arm bushings, 21/27 T bars, bilstein hd front and sport rears, and hopefully the Wevo SPS, for the rear.

The swaybars are troubling me though.

It seems that there are two levels. The basic upgrade, (Stamped steel parts, such as the Welmeister) or the really sweet ones by Smart Racing Products, among others. Of course, I think those are the way to go. But at roughly $1300 for the set, it's a bit spendy. And it seems pretty straightforward. So I started poking around, and there are lots of firms making the components. Speedway Enfgineering for example sells the bars in a range of diameters and lengths, the pillow blocks, the arms and the adjustable drop links, all in high grade materials, for about $250 in parts. On the rear, it's pretty much a bolt in deal.

I need to figure out the front a bit more though, as I haven't resolved the thru body mount yet. I suppose I could buy that component one off from someone like SMP.

So, it boils down to some basic math to get the proper rates, and thats that. Or is it? What am I missing?

I know a bunch of us here must've fooled aroud with this....any thoughts? Or can anyone point me to the thread that surely exists that is appropriate??

thanks!

[Zeke]

I boxed the stock arms for strength on the backside. I have a 19mm front bar using the stock bushing plates and plastic bushings, so I dont think any more sturdy is needed. We'll see. But, that's about as cheap as you can go using what's already there with some Weltmeister adjustable drop links and a new bar.

[911pcars]

If you're not in a hurry (usually less expensive), look around for someone's used setup or an incomplete set you can add to with upgraded fabricated or off-the-shelf pieces. The difference in the various brands seems to be in the design differences, material, rod end quality (wide variation) and attachment of the sway bar arms and drop links to the spring plate or control arm.

Sherwood

[lateapex911]

Milt...what happens in the front with the thru chassis bearing point when you go with a bigger bar?

Sherwood- Good point on the rod ends. It is critical that they are good quality or they will bang like a bucket of bolts. I think there will be just a little fabrication needed at teh lower mounts.

[Jim2]

Hey lateapex, over the years I have fabricated many different suspension components including swaybars. There is not much exotic about them in terms of function, just as you noted. On a current 911 project I elected to buy a used set of bars due to my time being consumed by other more significant aspects of the project, however when the used bars arrived they were in such poor shape I ended up rebuilding all the hardware. Since then I have seen better deals on virtually new weltmeisters or the likes, for less than $200 per end.

I agree, speedway has a good range of bits if you do build your own.

For the front, bushing flanges are available at bearing supply shops, though you may consider fabing the component so as to utilize a nylon bushing, then machine a different bushing if you change bar diameter.

Aurora precision rodends work good, kevlar lined race rod ends have longer life but not as readily available. The comercial inudustrial grade rodends have been too loose whenever I've tried to use them for auto applications.

Two ears welded to the lower control arms for the front pick-ups, watch for alignment at full droop and full compression, and use high angle spacer washers on either side of the rod end between the pick-up ears. I've done a couple of these on 911s and it worked well both times.

Jim

[Jeff Higgins]

I'm not sure if this will help, Jake, but here is a thread on a rear installation I did for my '72. Maybe you can get some usefull ideas from it, or it will stir some other thoughts for you.

What do you think of my sway bar mount

[Zeke]

Originally posted by lateapex911
Milt...what happens in the front with the thru chassis bearing point when you go with a bigger bar?

As I said, I only went up to 19 from 15mm. I would hope that the tub was engineered well enough to take that increase in stress. I'm NOT an engineer, so I don't know what percentage of increase I'm effecting. I'm just following the herd.

Speaking of herd, I heard that the arms were the weak link in the device. I simply welded a flat .018 sheet metal piece on the backside of the arm with a square cut out and a slit copying the form of the original. So, maybe it won't twist and bend, but maybe it will due to the one-sided upgrade. I think it's better than stock.

[jpnovak]

Jim, Do you have a good source for the conical wide angle spacer washers for the spherical rod ends (heim joints)? I have all the parts minus these spacers to fab adjustable drop links.

Thanks

[doozer]

I will say that I have not been happy with QA1 rod ends as they are now made in the " China Operations" facility.

Read this:

http://www.bakerprecision.com/rodhow.htm

[doozer]

Yes! here:

http://www.spidertrax.com/fabrication.htm

Originally posted by jpnovak
Jim, Do you have a good source for the conical wide angle spacer washers for the spherical rod ends (heim joints)? I have all the parts minus these spacers to fab adjustable drop links.

Thanks

[911pcars]

Typically, these high misalignment spacers are only supplied in larger sizes; 1/2" and up. Our cars use smaller rod ends <3/8" (~M8) or less.

Any other sources?

One option are high misalignment rod ends with built in spacers in their internal balls. But these are quite pricey.

Sherwood

[Cory M]

Hoerr Racing Products (http://hrpworld.com/) also has anti-roll bar kits, check them out.

[doozer]

Any local machine shop can make these.

Originally posted by 911pcars
Typically, these high misalignment spacers are only supplied in larger sizes; 1/2" and up. Our cars use smaller rod ends <3/8" (~M8) or less.

Any other sources?

One option are high misalignment rod ends with built in spacers in their internal balls. But these are quite pricey.

Sherwood

[Jim2]

I'm leading you astray lateapex, sorry. What I intended is that you should at minimum have shoulder washers, or in the case of the 911 swaybars a simple sleave is adequate for misalignment. Do you have the welded on rear mounts? If not I have a pair of the T-bar mounts I don't need.

I've found sleaves are adequate to provide enough clearance for 3/8" rod ends on the two 911 installations I did. Sleave on left, center "shoulder" provides the same function as the sleave, but it is not necessary. Right one is the "high misalignment" not needed. All three are 3/8".

jpnovak, I machine my own misalignment washers, though a race shop here used to stock them. Not sure who the root supplier was. Perhaps you just need the sleaves?

[lateapex911]

jim2- no worries, we are all ears here! I am working with a pretty clean sheet of paper on this.

I think that the smart racing set up loks like the real deal. Their rear solution appears as though it attemprs to heve each adjustment render the same relative difference in reistance, in that they have designed a curve in their lever arm. Or is it a geometry issue?
I do wish I knew their lever arm length, as they publish their input force per degree of twist, which can be easily converted to the Speedway Engineering numbers easily. Except I don't know the arm lenghts.

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by Cory M
Hoerr Racing Products (http://hrpworld.com/) also has anti-roll bar kits, check them out.

Thanks..thye have their rates listed as well. Very helpful,..and prices! cool!

[Jeroen]

Originally posted by doozer
Yes! here:
http://www.spidertrax.com/fabrication.htm

Nice stuff!
Now only if they had it in metric

[lateapex911]

That Sidertrax site is cool! I found some stuff I have been searching for over 4 months for my race car! Thanks!

If anyone out there in P land could tell me the arm lever measurement length range of the SRP bars, I would REALY appreciate it! Tyson? I know you've fooled with the SRP anti roll bars, any ideas on the arm lenghts?

[doozer]

Also look at :

http://www.chassisshop.com <<< good one!

http://www.ubmachine.com

http://www.rodendsupply.com/

http://www.meziere.com/

[lateapex911]

Hey Jim- I got your PM with the arm dimensions...tnaks! I tried to send you a PM, but the box is full. The numbers are VERY helpful.

And guys, Jim has a stout build going on..you should see his website. he does it all it appears..weld, mill and run a lathe..pretty cool stuff.