CIS Gurus,,,I've had it!

[dougcl]

"A little trick you may try. Disconnect the wires for the WUR. This slows the warmup of the WUR so the mixture stays richer longer. The WUR will eventually warm up from the enginw heat and have the correct mixture when warm. Good luck."

Hi, this is absolutely false.

Doug

[Paulporsche]

Since you have replaced so many things, and I am assuming you have checked for correct fit and air leaks, maybe you need to look elsewhere, like the O2 sensor, distributor, CDI, coil, frequency valve and connections.

[Westy]

Hey Paul, what are the odds. I mean, like I said before, it ran perfect but needed a WUR. Here's the update.

I got it started, then futzed and futzed, and futzed with the two adjustment screws, and finally I got it to idle at 1000 rpm. It was still alittle rich, and there was a significant lag in the acceleration, but this would have been good enough to drive it to the mechanic. I let it idle for a good ten or fifteen minutes. I turned it off, waited 10 minutes or so, and it wouldn't restart. I mean, WTF, it was running perfect, but now it wont restart. And I aint touching the 3mm any more. It took forever o get it to this point.

OK Gurus, now what do I do???

Brian W

[vizail]

This is a Mistery Tale.

You said that you fallow my CIS Freq. Valve Check thread.. Why don't you check everything I check.., The Lambda relay, Acc. Enrichment Cont..,
Check your Static . Ingnition Dist. Timing ..We are learning here..!

Cordially

Vic

[jwetering]

Originally posted by Westy
\Here's an idea. Everyone go out to your car, right now, and turn all your screws clockwise until seated, then tell me how many turns it was. OK, I know, not a great idea.

hahaha - or should I say LOL - that's the funniest thing I've heard in a while.

Sounds like a nightmare you're having. Good luck..

lurking

[jess p]

First, relax and drink a cold beer. Then buy a 3 mm allen
wrench. At the top of the air intake just next to the fuel
distributor. Insert, the wrench and turn clockwise 1 full
turn. Do this till engine starts.



76 911S
81 911 Sc
66 912 v8
70 914 project car
66 912 2.2 with nitrous

[T1R1]

Could it be that you "new" WUR is bad. I had the same type of problems with a new rebuilt one. It leaked at rest pressure so the car wouldn't start hot. Thanks to John Walker I found it to be the WUR. Had all kinds of problems getting it to idle too. I didn't think to look at it as a potential problem because it was new. What ever you do don't screw the 3mm adjusting screw to far, it can come out....don't ask me how I know. Hang in there it will be fixed!!

[Westy]

OK, how would I check and see if my new ($400) WUR was bad? Ya know, that would really suck!!!!!

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by Westy
OK, how would I check and see if my new ($400) WUR was bad? Ya know, that would really suck!!!!!

I think you need carbs.

[Paulporsche]

Have you checked the other items that Vic and I mentioned? Have you confirmed that your sensor is moving freely and not weighed down by grease, etc? Have you checked for air leaks? How about the fuel accumulator and fuel pump check valve? Or the AAR, AAV and Decel Valve? Check all wiring and connections, incl those @ the back side of the fuel dist and to the CD box. Check fuel pump connection @ fusebox. What is the condition of your plugs, now that you have been running a little rich? How are your rotor and dist cap? Do your fuel pump and/or CD whine? Do they stop whining when the engine stops? Do you have an alarm?

To check the WUR you should use a fuel gauge and check control and fuel pressures.

[vizail]

westy

It might be funny.... but tell me..!

Is your Alarm working? Do your hear a rellay opening and closing for about 30 seconds every time you turn your key off? If you do and you don't use your Alarm system Loop it.
As you know this Porsche alarms will do more harm than good.

Vic

[Westy]

No alarm. Fuel system is perfect, pressure was already tested and was perfect.. Swapped out CD box, no change. replaced gaskets oring boots etc, and tightened everything. Distributor cap and rotor are new, as are plugs. Fuel filter is new. Throttle body was taken out and cleaned and the sensor adjusted to specs. I checked the fuel pump relay, I traced all wires to their connections. I found a blue wire under the passenger seat that wasn't connected to anything, but there wasn't any place on the Lambda to put it. Must be for something else. Double Frack!!

Jess, it took me forever to get it where it is now, how would richening the system a whole turn benefit me.

Guys I spent the whole day on this car. I only took beer brakes and the aftermath breaks from drinking beer.

[David]

I'd check fuel pressure again. Fuel pressure is so critical to the CIS system running properly. Check your cold, warm, and system pressures again and post. If you don't have a set of CIS gauges in your shop, you need them!

[T1R1]

Like Paul said "to check the WUR you should use a fuel gauge and check control and fuel pressures" and also at rest pressure.
A Bad WUR can leak at rest pressure on the return side of the system causing hot start problems as well as poor running during warm up. Check pressures with a gauge.

Just wondering why you replaced your WUR? You might try putting the old one back in.

[T1R1]

Seems at last point he had it running but would not start hot. Maybe an update on things is in order.

[MobileWrks]

First off, no telling brian he has all these bad parts... He did a full injection reseal. R&R the engine him self. i know he know his american cars, so mechanicly he's ok. Have you rechecked you vaccum lines??
Tighten the intake boots snug???
Did you check fuel dist head pin while engine was out???
****Remember pelicans, he took it to get it smogged, the guy on the machine punched it and big back fire and blew the pop valve, and split the air box. ****
with turning the 3mm allen, you probly throwing the cars air/fuel way off

http://www.jwsvws.com/CIS%20Troubleshooting.html

http://www.ncr-pca.org/tech/tech-cis.htm

http://www.pelicanparts.com/911/technical_specs/911_cis_troubleshoot.htm

http://members.rennlist.com/jimwms/CIS/CIShome.html

[vash]

still stumped.

can a airbox crack with a pop off valve installed and working properly? i saw the box, i didnt inspect it carefully. but i did pry out the old POV. it was in excellent shape, altho the person that installed it did a messy epoxy job.

[MobileWrks]

Not sure if you can reuse them, but if it looked good to you, i dont see why it wouldnt.... I looked at the box, and looked like lack of fuel..possibly the dist pin getting stuck under pressure..
http://members.rennlist.com/jimwms/CIS/CIShome.html

[Westy]

Another update First of all, when the motor cuts out there is a buzz coming from behind the throttle plate. Like a pair of hair clippers. Lasts about 4 or 5 seconds, then tapers off. This is the first time I heard it.

3mm screw. I have it to where the rpm's drop when I raise it AND lower it. But I'm sure it's so far out a whack it's rediculous. What did they do at the factory when they built these things. There must have been a starting point for the settings.

All I can adjust now is the air/fuel on the side. The only way to keep the car running is to give it gas and keep it above 2200 rpm's. Which I guess is good enough to get it to the shop, but I'm still a little frustrated.

Valve question. I think I might have screwed up when adjusting the valves. #6 is clacking like a 2 year olds snare drum. Since it felt good when I did it, would that mean I adjusted the ones after that out of sequence? My understanding is engines will idle with loose valves, but will not idle with tight valves. Is that the same with P-cars?

Vacuum. I just don't think there are any vacuum leaks. I checked everything, and I tightened everything. Besides, at one point it idled great for about ten minutes. The only possible area is in the boot. There was a small tear at the base on the small side, but it didn't go up very high and the tightening band pretty much covered it up. It was maybe a 1/4 inch. I looked at how the thing fit, and I cant see how air could leak there. So lets get back to valves. Can a bad adjustment cause all of this nonsense?

[Westy]

Yet another update. Using a mirror and drop light I inspected everything at the back of the motor. All hooked up just like it should be.

It started pretty easy, but as it warmed up it wanted to die. More futzing with the screws.got it to idle at 1400 rpm's. Put the air box lid on and poof, it dies. let more air in and got a very rythmic and loping surge. Kept leaning (Counterclockwise on big screw?), idle increases, then drops after a half minute or so.

I can probably get it to the shop this way, but this ain't right.