Failure of the 928

[cygtoad]

I have owned my 911 for a few years now, but as I look at 928's I am left wondering why if failed.

This site provides some insight on the history on the 928:
http://www.ropsley.org.uk/porsche_928.htm

I don't really understand Porsche's logic in trying to replace the 911 with such a vastly different car. Then I came to find that nearly all of the 928's sold in the US were automatic, and that the manual transmission cars were highly desirable. Who wants a GT or sports car with an automatic transmission?

As I look in the old magazines I always see the 911 compared to the Vette, and this continues today. It would seem to me that the 928 vs Vette comparison would be more appropriate as they are more similar, but that is not what you see. Perhaps it is a matter of historical rivalry.

Do you think the 928 was rejected by Porsche owners because it abandoned rear engined design, for front engine & water cooled. Did this move somehow provided some credence to the design paradigm of American muscle cars like the Vette?

I'm not trying to get into a debate about what is better, after all I am a true 911 fan. However, I would like to better understand why the 928 was shelved when it seems like such a great car that could have complemented the line if it had not been considered a 911 replacement. What do you think?

[FrayAdjacent911]

I never liked the 928, but I disliked it before I knew about the rear engine/air cooled and front engine/water cooled difference.

It was just such a departure from the classic design of the 911. Nothing can replace the 911.

[stefang]

I would hardly consider a car that had a 17 year run a failure. Why was it eventually shelved? Money had a lot to do with it. In '95 the market for sports cars died and by that time the 928 (and 968) were very expensive. Mazda RX7s and Nissan 300ZXs also met their demise that year.

Stef

[Jack Olsen]

One way to look at it was that the 928 didn't fail at all. Porsche just kept fattening up the 911 until it was a big GT car. Nowadays, a 911 Turbo weighs more (and has less power) than a Z06 Corvette -- but costs less than the base-model 911. (So the apples-to-oranges comparison with the Corvette has -- ironically -- become more appropriate with the passage of time.)

Porsche has always had a hard time marketing anything as well as they did the 911. I think a lot of their success with the 911 was accidental -- since they kept announcing their intention to replace it. And the 911 was so successful that it sets up very high expectations for the other models.

Porsche has been unable to find a long-term market position for a lot of really cool cars they've built. The 928 had to sell to the luxury market, where there's a lot of competition, and where performance is not the most important factor for most buyers. The 928 didn't fit perfectly into its well-established and highly-competitive market segment. Still, I wouldn't consider it a failure. It just had a lifespan that's more typical to the industry.

More recently, Porsche has sold a lot of Boxsters, and I think the Cayenne is doing very well. But I don't know that anyone really expects those models to last for over 40 years. It's got to be hard to live happily in the Porsche family when your older brother is the 911.

[PorscheGuy79]

I will tell you from experience that 928s are great fun to drive. My grandfather has one of those rare 5 speeds with the awesome 914 shift pattern. The car just wows me, It feels tight and planted and not as quick or nimple as a 911. The engine is very gutteral and its fun to have all the torque down low. I think that if it had a auto box it would be half the car it is IMO. From my experience its a great car and the reason I got into these cars.

[jyl]

The 928 was very expensive and up against tough competition in the luxury sports tourer segment. Without a competition history of its own, and too different from the 911 to live off that model's history, the 928 wasn't special or different enough to become a "big" success. As Jack said, you could argue the 928 was at least a "sort of" success.

[silverc4s]

The design of the 928 addressed a number of critical areas that - at the time - seemed to forecast the imminent demise of the 911.
1. Front engine - rear transaxle, for near 50/50 weight balance
2. Conventional suspension design that would allow for ABS and other advancements.
3. Water cooling, which was considered necessary to meet emission & power requirements together.
4. Automatic transmissions, needed for NA marketplace.
5. GT level sophistication of comfort, performance, handling, and ride.

The car was VERY advanced at the time of introduction, and all of the enthusiast magazines raved about it, as an indicator of future technology in cars.
Sadly, it was never LOVED as the 911 was inside or outside of Porsche, so it never evolved at the pace of the 911's early days. Then came Peter Schutz from Caterpillar, who revived the 911, and the 928 and all it's water cooled bretheren were allowed to quietly slip away into the void...

On top of everything the simplest versions of the 928 were never as reliable or as easy to repair as even the most complex 911 variant. They seemed to have Audi level service requirements and breakdown frequencies, which set them apart from the 911 as well.

These are just my opinions, as always, YMMV...

[cygtoad]

silverc4s, what baffles me is why the 928 was really never loved. Was it because it was too much like other cars in design (front engined and water cooled)? All the things you listed above were great advancements but I think they must have been overshadowed by the V-8 front engined design.

The car was cool in most every way but it was rejected in the end. Porsche's biggest mistake must have been pitting it against the beloved 911 as a replacement. How could you love a car that was expected replace the 911 and be, in many respects, like a dime a dozen muscle car in basic design (50/50 weight distribution aside) at $120K?

Today you can get a 928 for the price of a teenager's first car at under $10K. If I had purchased one new I would be pretty disappointed in that reality.

The author of the link I posted hopes Porsche will bring back the 928 for it's 30th year anniversary. I think that is wishful thinking.

If we collectively still harbor some resentment over the idea that the 928 could ever replace the 911, perhaps it is time to forget the past and respect the car for what it really is, a damn cool piece of Porsche history that exemplifies their commitment to advancement in technology.

[Bob's Flat-Six]

Man seems to always want to progress or at least try to. Because of this we are always thinking ahead to bigger and better things.
So at Porsche all this thinking thought that the 911 a car that had roots back to the VW beetle with all it's simplicity would someday loose it's appeal.
So a car or cars as in 924 / 928 to replace the 911 was felt necessary. Solid thinking really.

What Porsche didn't realize was the emotional appeal that the 911 had on people. It was probably a seed that was planted way back with the VW beetle for some people.
How can anybody resist a car that looks back at you with headlights and a smile and soon to have hips like a woman ?

About the same time the 924/928 were released the 911SC came out with it's flared rear fenders and wider tires rear than front, Now how cool is that !. Only hot rods and racers had bigger rubber in the rear, but this little enigma of a car came that way from the factory, every one of them. Plus a lot of other cool stuff.

By this time there was no stopping the 911's momentum even though Porsche didn't realize it.
So the 924/928 were released but could never quite catch that 911 train.
Their good cars, but they just didn't quite capture the heart and soul like the 911 could, even in a foreign land.

[porschenut]

I just bought a 928S 5-speed last weekend, my first. I've had my 911 for over a year now and absolutely love it. But, as others have mentioned the 928 is an amazing car! 50/50 weight distribution and just shy of 300 HP around 5600 RPM. The torque peak is around the 3k range. When you hit the gas, this thing pins you back in the seat. And even though it's a lot heavier than the 911, it handles just as well.

I've been reading Excellence Was Expected and the story of the 928. Porsche planned for it to replace the 911, but it was intended primarily to target Mercedes sport-sedan buyers, who wanted refinement and automatic transmissions. About 90% of all 928s have automatics because of this. And, coincidentally, all the automatic transmissions were built by, and sourced from, Mercedes-Benz. The car is a GT, not a pure sports car, and wasn't intended to be. Although it has sports car handling and scary power (at the time).

The 928 was the most technologically advanced car in the world at its introduction. It is the most expensive and luxurious car Porsche has ever built (in its day). Repairs and maintenance are very expensive, as you would expect of such a car. As a result, most people cannot afford the time or the money to take care of them properly, and sadly most of them get neglected as a result. It is all these poorly maintained examples that give it the reputation for being unreliable. They are NOT. My 928 is as solidly built as my 911, and the fit and finish are superb, even by today's standards.

[CarreraS2]

Originally posted by porschenut
Repairs and maintenance are very expensive, as you would expect of such a car. As a result, most people cannot afford the time or the money to take care of them properly, and sadly most of them get neglected as a result.

I'd disagree with that slightly. Repairs and maintenance may be expensive, but repairs and maintenance on an old Ferrari are expensive, too. But people still put money into most of them to take care of them.

So it's not that people CAN'T afford to take care of a 928 properly.

It's just that is has proven to not be a very desirable car in the marketplace. So it hasn't maintained its value, and people (generally) aren't willing to dump a lot of money into them.

[porschenut]

True, it was never all that popular to begin with. Which is too bad because it's such a great car. It won Car of the Year when it was introduced, and still remains the only sports car ever to win it.

[look 171]

Well, you have to ask yourselfs, would you buy a 928 or a 6 series or whatever top of the range BMW. I think I would choose the Bimmer. The 928 is ugly, IMO. I slmost bought an S a year back. Thanks to my Mech, he say don't buy it because he ain't working on it.

[silverc4s]

I just had a thought...the new Porsche 4 door sedan is kinda the rebirth of the 928. Perhaps as it should have been originally...;-)

[iamchappy]

I can easily see why the 928 was discontinued but will never understand why the 914 was, a 914 with a large six, big brakes and good suspension with its mid engine design and weighing a little over 2,000 lbs was a natural for a performance enthusiasts car.
And the fact that all the 911 parts at the time bolted right into the 914 meant they didn't have to engineer anything new for it.
To replace a car like that with a 924 was a shame.
I have owned both 911s and 914s, I now have a 914 with a turbocharged 3.0 in it and wish Porsche would of done the same.

[beamonk]

928'S ARE GREAT CARS, DAMN CAPS LOCK, I had a 78 5-speed and wish I had not sold it. It had an 83 motor with the Euro CIS, it would run out, freezing cold A/C, art deco interior and was petro blau metallic. It sounded great and drove so damn nicely on the highway or twisties, At night when those headlights popped up, it was awesome. Problem was it was just too expensive. In '93 nearly 100k. Go figure.

[iamchappy]

I personally like the 928 and have thought about purchasing one many times but even though it is a nice performing car and can run on the track, I think of it as a luxury sport car and it is how I would use it.

[JoeF]

Any one who tells you that a 928 is not a great car has not driven a 928.
JoeF