Starter connections ????

mmasse · mmasse's Garage

I just reinstalled the engine on my car. I connected the wire to the starter, but i am not sure about the black wire showing in the picture. Where do I have to connect that one? ..to where I connected the red (+) on the starter.

Thanks

Mario

mmasse · mmasse's Garage

this is the picture!!!

aus911 · aus911's Garage

Mario

The black wire looks like the battery wire so yes it should go to the red wire, which in turn goes to the alternator.

Cheers Ray

randywebb · 05-20-2005, 01:14 PM

I might as well ask about the two different large terminals on the high-torque aftermarket starters (solenoids). My ohm meter says they are not connected. Which large terminal does what?

RoninLB · 05-20-2005, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by randywebb

My ohm meter says they are not connected.

connects battery to starter when engaged.

randywebb · 05-20-2005, 05:24 PM

can you explain that more?

RoninLB · 05-21-2005, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by randywebb

can you explain that more?

the "connection" is called solenoid contacts. If you key the start and hear a click but the engine doesn't turn over chances are that the contacts are dirty or worn out. The contacts see sparks when the key is released and this dirties and burns it. A quick fix is usually to open up the solenoid and clean them or move the contact area depending on the solenoid. Being how the starter solenoid is somewhat self cleaning I'll disconnect the battery wire and key the start maybe a dozen times hoping that the contacts will self clean. Some solenoid contacts rotate as part of the self cleaning.

In your situation you attempted to run a meter from the disconnected solenoid battery lug to the other large lug below it that feeds the starter motor with power, I believe. The contacts were not making a connection at rest.

randywebb · 05-21-2005, 06:47 PM

There are two (2) large connections on the solenoid - I am asking about what should be connected to each one. This is a high torque starter.

RoninLB · 05-21-2005, 07:23 PM

I assumed the two "large connections" were the battery and motor feed?

The smaller connections are the solenoid trigger power from ignition start and the other may be a temporary grounding to another device. This is common in starters. The CIS cold start valve gets triggered at the same terminal as the solenoid trigger lug.

If your trying to figure out how to wire the starter all you need is to ground the starter frame and feed 12v to one or the other smaller lugs. The solenoid contacts will "click" at the proper small lug.

randywebb · 05-21-2005, 07:59 PM

I'm trying to figure out how to wire the LARGE lugs on the starter - as in which one gets what. I know about the frame gnd and the small wire/small terminal.

The rebuilder rotated the solenoid so that one big lug is up and the other is hard to reach - maybe impossible. I want to make sure wiring to the big lug that is up will be OK.

RoninLB · 05-21-2005, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by randywebb

I want to make sure wiring to the big lug that is up will be OK.

oh.. now I got it.

I started thinking about starters that I haven't seen is a long time. and the ranting is your fault. So to pay you back I'll continue.
Sometimes the extra small lug is a solenoid ground. I didn't expect to see one in a car so I didn't want to confuse the subject. Stuff like that is all around marine wrenching.. many different installs. It's like there wasn't any GM of boat builders. Smart mgt has recently become involved but new marine elec's has gotten more complicated with digital everything. I'm not up on it. Although that would be a great blue collar job. A few scopes and adaptors for everything. There is a few shops making scope adaptors that are very nice.

I'd install the solenoid to the best fit.. which stud doesn't matter unless there is some silicone contraption to ground the spark instead of toasting the terminals full time.
Then it may matter?

go figure.

bell · bell's Garage

check with a meter to determine if the thick black wire is 12+ or a ground, all the wires for that matter.
knowing what you are connecting is the first step.
a starter solinoid is basically a large relay, there should be a bus bar or a heavy guage wire coming off one of the terminals and going into the starter, connect the heavy guage wire to the other large terminal, when the solinoid trips it will connect these and make the starter spin.
the 2 small terminals are what trigger this with 12v+ on one side and ground on the other.
the 2 pics ron posted above explain the rest.

a note on grounds, the starters for my turbo dodges use the case for the ground, which is why ground straps are so important, i haven't had the starter out of my 911 yet but a starter is a starter

911pcars · 05-21-2005, 10:27 PM

Not sure about your solenoid. On some, the other small terminal provides 12 volts directly to the ignition coil/breaker point circuit during cranking.

On cars with points, the ballest resistor normally reduces the source voltage to the primary ignition circuit to around 9 volts to prevent the breaker points from overheating. However, during cranking, the resistor is bypassed via this solenoid terminal to provide the full 12 volts to the ignition coil to create higher voltage.

Hope this helps,
Sherwood

randywebb · 05-22-2005, 09:50 AM

"other small terminal"

- There's just one small terminal - I know what goes to it. I also know about the gnd thru the case, and I know what all the wires do.

- Only question for me was what is the difference in the two big studs on the solenoid.

bell · bell's Garage

in ron's pic you see the 2 large terminal bolts, one goes into the starter motor assembly via the "connector" this is how power gets to the starter from the solenoid, the other is connected to the battery to supply the power when the solenoid is on.
answer your question?

randywebb · 05-22-2005, 01:52 PM

I don't get it - when would you ever connect the +12V supply to the bottom terminal that is always connected to the starter?

And, when would you ever connect any other wire there?

i.e. why is there a lug there at all? the "connector" does not use the lug.

bell · bell's Garage

maybe for remote activation switch...the aligator clip ones?
it is a race car at heart

911pcars · 05-22-2005, 03:23 PM

"I don't get it - when would you ever connect the +12V supply to the bottom terminal that is always connected to the starter?

And, when would you ever connect any other wire there?

i.e. why is there a lug there at all? the "connector" does not use the lug."

In Ron's pic, the Pos. battery cable connects to the large top solenoid terminal. The bottom solenoid terminal is the direct connection to the starter motor. When the solenoid is energized by the ignition ("start" position), the two terminals connect internally via a copper disc to complete the circuit from the top to the lower terminal (motor).

Ordinarily, there wouldn't be any other wire connector on the lower terminal unless the user/manufacturer wants to send source voltage to a another device that works only when cranking.

Sherwood

tgarnoldo · 05-26-2005, 07:13 AM

I have a similar problem. Previously if my '87 carrera would sit for longer than 14-18 hours the starter would not engage, and at times the voltage would be low enough to clear the radio presets, etc... I would bump start the car and have no problems for teh next day or so as long as I drove it everyday. Battery volteage measured 12.5ish V. Diagnosis - bad battery. After installation, car started fine for the first day, now the starter just clicks whenever I try it. Have not checked the battery voltage, as it just started happening consistantly. Thoughts??

Thanks,

Arnie

911pcars · 05-26-2005, 09:49 AM

As mentioned in a previous post, check available voltage at the solenoid terminal (connection from switch during cranking). With everything connected, the voltage should be 9+ volts if the starter cranks and 12+ volts if it just clicks (no voltage drop from motor rotating). With the solenoid wire disconnected and ign. switch cranked, it should be the same as source voltage or 12+ volts. If not, there's a voltage drop, perhaps low enough to prevent energizing the solenoid.

If the solenoid just clicks and the battery is okay, I would suspect a faulty solenoid and/or starter. It could be a internal problem in either unit. Remove the assy. and have it tested at an auto electrical shop.

I've also heard of engine heat causing the armature to expand and stick inside the starter housing. That's why some owners whack it with a hammer. Some also spritz some water from a spray bottle to cool it down.

Also check the ground cable at the back of the car (by gearbox mount).

Hope this helps,
Sherwood