Help me build a race car

[CWilson]

Ok first I'm sorry but it won't be a 911 based car. I am looking to build a car for DE as my 911 is a convertable and more expensive than I can afford to write off. To get my track kicks I am looking to build something in the lines of the Grass Roots Motorsports $2000 chalenge cars. I intend to start with ripping out everything not related to moving and add safety (roll cage, harness etc) first. I don't plan on racing in a series yet although autocross is an option. Budget is about $2000. These are the cars I'm looking at

Porsche 924 - Keep it in the family. Dead cheap for an early 80s and can sell excess parts and probably pay for the car. Going to see one tommorow for $900

VW Golf - I understand they are fun.

BMW 3 series - Most expensive option but a sweet track car.

Honda CRX - nice but could become too rice.

So has anyone else tried this? Is this possible for an average mechanic or have I just watched too many episodes of Monster Garage?

Thanks,

[pookie]

I am thinking along the same lines as you. The way I was looking at it was that whatever I get I will strip down and use as a staight track car. Plus I wanted something that if I wrecked it wouldn't break my heart. Don't know if you considered the 914 or 944 both are still in the fam and both have about 50/50 weight balance.

[stomachmonkey]

Got a nice Starion that'd make a great track car and fit in your budget.

Scott

[obrut]

my suggestion would be a mx-5 (miata for you US guys)

also, read the rules of the series that you may eventually want to enter before you do anything

[drsimonwong]

The early 944 (2.5l) or miata/mx-5s sound ideal. There was an article in one the more recent Excellence mags. that had details about the 944 series that runs in Australia.

Simon

[VincentVega]

Porsche's seem to have the most cheap track days open to them. PCA has a ton of cheap DE's, club races too. Get a '44 and you also run with Nasa's 44 cup. You might not be competitive in SCCA, but you could run.

Other makes might be cheaper to buy, but in the long run, if you have to pay more for DE's doesnt it add up? That's what I tell myself at least.

[Grady Clay]

I’ll second Ryan. A Spec Miata is a bargain. The one my son Chris
raced two summers ago was a ’91 1.6, 130K mi. that they had
purchased for $500. The one with him posing (age 16).

It got a cage, a race seat and the Mazda suspension kit ($600
for about $3000 worth of parts.) With fresh (cheep) paint it
looked like a real race car. It ran perfectly all season. The
Factory support from Mazda is better than from any other
manufacturer.



I drove it about 20 miles on the street to this photo shoot and
it was very tolerable with the stiff suspension.


Great fun and lots of oppertunity to auto-X, DE, race SCCA or other and just enjoy.

Best,
Grady

[BReyes]

In this case, if not a 911, I would stay with Porsche, and go with a 944. I must say the beemer would be nice too, and before there was a 944 there was 924. Also consider that there will be a period when you (in the begining) will be the limiting factor, whereby you will be learning to get the performance the car has stock. I was told that a long time ago by my friends (who raced under BMW CCA )at the BMW/Porsche dealership I bought parts (received advise) for my 3 and 5 series beemers.

But your question is valid, and therefore, more than one Porsche, is at best, an economic challenge. I too think at times that I could enjoy a BMW track car (especially after reading how easy they are becoming to purchase inexpensively).

Regards,

[M.D. Holloway]

Grady - that is a great story. $600 got you $3000 worth of parts? splain yer self Lucy...

[araine901]

I agree about the MX5. I have two buddies who have them and race them and I would kill to have my p-car handle like that. With the mazda if you spend 1K in susspension or motor or brake up grades its a massive differnces. A word to the wise if you run stiff suspension you MUST run a cage or a hoop with door bars or it will not handle right.

[RLJ]

Have you thought about shifter carts? these things are awsom, and cheap. You can buy a cart for less money than it takes to rebuild a 915 tranny. Just a thought.



Randy Jones
1971 911

[Grady Clay]

Mike,

Mazda sells a Miata kit to racers for cheep. It consists of competition Bilsteins, stiff springs, new calipers, rotors, MC, SS hoses, sway bars & links, suspension bushings, engine & trans mounts, LSD, and much more. I was told that the cost from Mazdaspeed was US$600 and the (wholesale?) value exceeded $3000.

This link will get you there.
http://www.mazdamotorsports.com/wcscp/userHtml/ms.html

The requirement is you must compete in Auto-X on up to wheel-to-wheel if you want, but send them the results showing your participation.

I understand you can get parts for your competition Mazda at significantly less than dealer cost. Something Porsche should learn.

Best,
Grady

[M.D. Holloway]

Dang! And what sort of MX5 can one get for a few thousand?

[CWilson]

Thanks for the advice. I will certainly look into the Mazda stuff as it looks like factory support could make this into a real racing program. Just need to find a cheap miata and see where it goes.

[jluetjen]

I can second the value of the Mazda Competition Support team. It's a great bunch of guys, helpful, a great catalog, and to be honest the SCCA seems to have a soft spot for Mazda's of late. Just send them your results, and "you're on the team!".

[Grady Clay]

Clay,

There is far more to going racing than a race car or race team. The car and driver are the center of attention but the real work (and expense) ranges far wider.

There are three main areas of concern:
1. Financial – no one has an unlimited budget.
2. Technical – all the issues of cars, driving, entering, etc.
3. Personal – what is it you want from the experience, effort and expense?

Everyone has their financial “comfort zone” where the cost is not overwhelming. For some that allows pro racing while others are comfortable with a clutch race kart. Stray outside the zone and it rapidly quits being fun. We have all heard the admonition: “Want to make a small fortune in racing? – Start with a big one.”

The choice of vehicles, type of racing, and degree of commitment have a profound impact. You can’t race a Porsche on a VW budget. You can’t race the Mazda Star Pro Series in a Spec Miata. You can’t successfully decide to go to a Porsche Cup event on a Friday morning. You can easily take a nicely prepared 911 to club events almost every weekend during a “season.” Racing a nationally competitive Spec Miata all year is serious business. You can have a shifter kart prepped and ready for when the whim strikes.

Most of us “Walter Mitty” types go play with cars for one reason only – fun. It is fun to be successful. It is not fun to put your hand on the anvil and beat on it with a hammer – so to speak. It is more fun to be a “Big fish in a small pond” than be eaten alive by the pro sharks.

So … What to do?

Make yourself a budget. Plan to spend half of the budget. Be prepared to spend double the budget. Above all … make it fun.

Best,
Grady

[Cory M]

I'd look for cars that are already built, although at $2k most of the built cars will be roaches. I've got a 1972 Datsun 240Z that I'm going to be selling for around $4k, it has all of the expensive stuff already done to it (cage, racing seat, 3 sets of wheels and tires, better suspension, etc). I've seen similar deals on other Datsun 240's and 510's. These cars are a blast to drive, and can be made pretty quick with the right mods and the parts are pretty cheap. Whatever you do, don't buy somone's half finished project and garage full of junkyard parts. For the money you won't get better racing than a cart, but even that gets expensive and time consuming if you want to get on the podium. Post this question in the racing forum on this BBS and you may get some more responses.

[emcon5]

No affiliation, but I think I found your car, it is even relatively local. It is a little over your budget, but it comes with spares:

From: http://www.improvedtouring.com/Classifieds/

ITC Honda CRX Posted: Aug, 03 2005
Fast & Competitive, Current SCCA Logbook, Full adjustable ride hight with OPM 29mm Torsion bars, OPM Camber plates, OPM Rear Coilovers, Koni Shocks, 350lb Eibach springs and a Suspension Techniques rear sway bar. Comes with 3 complete engines, 1 just rebuilt with no time on Bottom end. Fuelsafe cell, Stainlees steel brake line, 4 13 x 6 pnansport rims, MSD 6al and Blaster coil. Plenty of extras

Has not been raced in 2 years, located in Leesburg, VA
Asking $3500 for everything.

There are a million CRXs out there, so parts should be readily available and not overly expensive. You can beat the snot out of it, driver's ed it, Time tiral it, and even race it with SCCA in ITA or NASA in Honda Challenge, if you decide to go that direction.

Tom

[KillerDynoSoar]

Buddy get a RWD car first off, because that simply means its a proper car.

Also consider the BMW E30 325i (Motor)Sports that car is awesome and comes with a factory fitted LSD as standard. I am telling you its a awesome drivers car. Bullet proof.

Have a browse through the Pelican BMW forums, not as busy as the Porsche forums but man when you drive one you will know. The balance of the car is great for spirited driving and turning into a track car will make it even all the more enjoyable.

Consider it.. test drive it. You won't regret it.

[CWilson]

I may have mispoken when I said in a previous post I may be able to start a racing program. I am new to anything more than the occational autocross and DE and my original intent was to get a car that is safe to take to the track and drive the snot out of on DEs and maybe still compete at the local autocross. To me that means a few things things:

- Cheap: I am a naval officer making a decent living but Porsche Cup cars are out of my league. I have to be able to walk away from the car totaled without a second thought. This means the budget for the whole thing needs to be under $2000-$3000.

- Safe: Most of the money I plan to spend on the car at first anyway is making sure that if I roll it or put it into a wall, I will walk away. I understand the hazards of taking any car on the track but want to minimize them. At a minimum a roll bar, Harness, Proper seat, and fire system are in order. With a $1000 dollar car this will eat up most of the rest of the budget. Also right now I view low power as a safety feature. As I get experience and maybe even a racing licence I can progress into higher power cars. When I can make a 924 go around a track in a decent time maybe I'll be ready to try a 911.

- Easy to maintain: I am a competant shade tree mechanic. I do all the maintenance on my 911, BMW 540, and Landcruiser. I do prefer working on things that are put together well though. Shouldn't have much trouble picking up another car and learning. It is part of the challenge I am looking for. Cars with Junkyard available parts are even better (VW comes to mind)

- Barely street legal: I would like to be able to drive this to and from local events without having to add the cost and storage requirements of a trailer.

Above all I want to be able to have fun and do events that are either too dangerous or financialy risky in a 911 Cabriolet.