917's collide at the 'Ring

[Wil Ferch]

Let's not forget this aspect, too....

The "pros" of the era look "back" on these cars and often say..."Were we nuts?. Our feet were all the way out front..in front of the forward axle??..."

Meaning?.....the same dangers exist today when running these old cars at 10/10 or 11/10. We've learned a lot about safety over the years..and it may be cool to see old cars on the track....but there's this issue of needlessly exposing yourself to "vintage" safety aspects that go way beyond the normal risks of "racing"....

Sure..don't park 'em in a museum...and don't have staged outcomes or parade laps either. But we don't need "red mist" in the eyes.....

- Wil

[kaferboy]

Ask yourself this - if you were in the driving seat and were confident of your capabilities, how long would it be before you were trying to see how quickly you could go in one of these machines?

Also, do you really think they will have survived to this point undamaged? They likely are already at the point mentioned by someone else on here - the axe thats had 3 new handles and 3 new heads.

Its good to see them out whatever your opinion, and I think we can all agree that to see these on a track is the best possible way, and if I was an old Porsche that had beena hellraiser in its youth I'd like the chance to raise hell on the circuits now and then during my retirement too

[sithot]

When the gold chain wearing owner with the altered bimbo shows up and "is the driver" it is time to give a wide berth. Money makes them indestructible and they will use you as a means through a corner. Sorry about your luck.
I've discussed this with an old timer who drove 550's 904's and other expensive pieces back in the day. He's now relegated himself to the "more professional" series when he does drive at all. Amateur racing is for amateurs.

Tom

[sammyg2]

LOL I seem to recall a local guy who owns the first 911RS (his license plate is (1ST RS)
He occasionally takes it out on the track and goes for it, even got into a K -ail once that I know about. I say good for him. He knows what the car was built for.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

Sorry, Stijn, I know one "girlyboy," as you so charmingly put it, who is one of the best 917 drivers of all time.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

This argument exists in the world of vintage aircraft as well. On the one side are those who say a Spitfire or Bf-109 means nothing unless you can see and hear it fly. On the other are those who point out that every year, there are fewer and fewer of these airplanes, and people continue to fly and crash them. (In the case of the great airplanes, it's typically the 70-year-old ex-wing commander who trashes them, convinced that he still has all his old skills.)

In the end, we finally get down to the last flying Messerschmitt 109, which will actually be a replica with a Rolls-Royce engine...

[patkeefe]

They should all drive 'em like the racers in the Nevil Shute novel "On the Beach".

[TRE Cup]

Well....
Here are some of my observations about the drivers. This is coming from my 30 odd years of track and race experience and being present at some of the heady days of pro racing on the west coast (the real Can-Am, F1 at Long Beach, F1 at Ontario vs F 5000, Imsa, Trans Am- big and little cars- enuf about me- onto my thoughts)

There are some very good owner /drivers that never originally competed in these historic cars, there are pro drivers from various disciplines invited to drive these historic cars.
And there are the rest. Some of which can be very aggressive with not enough talent to get them out of situations they should not be in, some that are just clueless.

True, the case could be made that Pro Driver A is still racing "his" (invited to drive) car, over the top, like it was 1971 and the overall win is at stake< there are races where top drivers were either told to win , " dam* the car -press on regardless", or the red mist descended < not usually likely unless he owns it

Owner / drivers (no pro) and semi pro can and have abused the spirit of vintage racing here in the usa as they are out to prove they can cut it with the big guns they are racing against OR this is what the car should be able to accomplish. Again some of these fall into the experienced and know how to race category. some do not.

Racing vintage in Europe is just like real racing here. You guage your risk when you put on the helmet. There is no emotional fracas happening in the pits over a little rubbing, like we can see here. This is not to say that they condone the big crashes or over the top driving. But the limit line is far more on the aggressive side of the scale.

I applaud the owners that realize their limitations and invite RESPONSIBLE pros to race the cars at the events. I applaud the owner /drivers that have learned how to drive their cars and RACE them.
I do not think that "win at all costs" which has been exhibited at events like Goodwood (with a certain Daytona coupe REPLICA, some years ago, as an example- and possibly this latest 917 incident) should be what vintage racing is about

And the talentless bozos that can write the big checks so they can be part of racing in the show should grow up and smell the Castrol R before they hurt themselves or others !

[jeffgrant]

Originally posted by SLO-BOB
Ahhh-back to testosterone. Well that makes it worth it then.

ANY race is about the testosterone... the red mist in front of your eyes, the elongation of your arms, the hair growing on the back of your knuckles, the formation of the uni-brow, and the slight sloping of the forehead. Oh, and the fangs... can't forget the fangs.

That's what racing is all about. To say otherwise is being incredibly naive.


I say go out, drive them like they were meant to be driven (not that many of us COULD drive them that way... it was indeed a special breed), as long as you're prepared for the consequences. But do it in a responsible manner... don't be an idiot, and don't drive over your means.

If I had a 917, damn straight I'd do my best to drive the wheels off of it. Tell me THAT wouldn't spice up the local PCA DE day. But I also wouldn't let myself get into a "must win or die" scenario.




$0.02

[Wil Ferch]

I go back to one of my first statements.....being stewards for posterity of these incredible machines. The "issue" is not to drive the absolute "snot" out of them. That was determined by the "true" drivers and teams "of the time". The purpose ( I thought all along) was to NOT have these cars in the museums....to have them run "in their environment"....etc, etc.

Plus....let's look at how we all salivate when ( for instance) we find an original , un-restored ( or nearly-so) example of an early Porsche race car. I'm thinking of the 550 found nearly intact in South America a few years back...and the Red 908 from Japan. Both these were so "original" they were viewed as especially significant for future restorers and historians of how these cars were "really" built. You can't do that if the axe handle was changed twice and the head three times...it's no longer the original axe. Future generations suffer.

- Wil

[limble]

Originally posted by patkeefe
They should all drive 'em like the racers in the Nevil Shute novel "On the Beach".

patkeefe,

An educated Pelicanhead.

"On the Beach" is one of those rare books that I wished I hadn't read so I could read it again for the first time.