917's collide at the 'Ring

[Wil Ferch]

Last weekend's event at the 'Ring was a Historic race.

I spoke to the guys in the pits...especially the two teams that ran 917's. One car was entered by a Belgian team. It was, the #3 Martini car driven by Elford for the '71 Sebring Victory ( chassis 917-020)....and the other, French team was running a Gulf-Porsche 917, #19 ( chassis 917-026).

Both guys collided ( with each other ! ...... not just once... but twice, for good measure ! ).....which DNF'd the Sebring car and hindered progress on the Gulf car. Mostly body damage on #3, but #19 suffered badly...fiberglass and aluminum damage....

Sad day....this is supposed to be gentlemanly racing so we can see historically significant cars on the track instead of in a museum. Instead these guys race hard like they're newer race cars. I have some personal negative feelings about the "stewardship" shown by such guys while these cars are in their possession.

- Wil

PS--- "K9 handler" or Smitty...were you there wearing a Goodwood Festival-of-Speed shirt? I was too timid to ask....

[ZLP]

Its thier cars and they like to drive the wheels off them. I rather see them pushed to the limits instead of being stationary. Metal and fiberglass are repairable....

[svandamme]

if i had the money to buy one , i'de drive the snot out of them just as well... what's the point other wise

[Wil Ferch]

As someone once said....these guys don't really "own" pieces of history....they are just the current ( generation ) caretakers.

True....let's not see them stationary in museums, but you get to the point where "you changed the axe handle 3 times and the head twice...but it's still the same axe."

Is it, though?....

Here's a link of the two cars involved. Interestingly, they both have a Gunnar Racing background --> http://www.gunnarracing.com/index.html

...click on "museum"....

- Wil

[svandamme]

if you payed the bill, and the title has your name on it
then you own it.... pure and simple

if that owner decides to melt the lot into an abstract piece of art
then still nothing can be done to stop them

racing them into snot isn't that bad, it's what they were designed for
so as far as i'm concerned... good for them if it get's their kicks off, and nobody get's hurt... and even if they would kill themselves in the process... good for them , great way to kick the bucket, it beats dying in bed in pool of your own vomit ...

[bkreigsr]

I spoke to Bob Akin once about the wisdom of historic racing when he was campaigning his Elva. He said most of the owners don't get upset with on-track incidents, as the car usually comes back from the resto shop (in 2 or 3 years) worth more than what the current owner paid for it. I don't know if the same holds true in today's market, but it's part of the rationale.

[Lukesportsman]

I've heard from several British drivers that we "Americans" vintage race like wimps. I'm going against the tide here and agreeing with Wil. If your going to bang them up and race the snot out of them then why not replicas? Why not race a SCCA equal? I love going to vintage racing and my wife and I have seriously considered the switch in the future. But things like this and BRI make me reconsider building a vintage racer to beat up.

I enjoy these events as a "rolling" car show. I want to see them in the atmosphere they were designed. You can't pick up Classic Sports Car without seeing one of these pile ups in England almost every month. Different strokes......

[svandamme]

because replica's make Baby Jezus cry ...

[Bill Verburg]

I saw a 911 clubracer take out 50% of the rear corner of Chuck Stoddards immaculate 917 at the 50/50 at the Glen. very sad

[Todd Simpson]

I've heard from several British drivers that we "Americans" vintage race like wimps.

You only have to watch the circuit races at Goodwood to see why they think this...those guys are nuts. 11/10's for lap after lap, banging fenders in beautiful cars. I'm guessing a win at Goodwood is very prestigious.

On the flip side 956/962 "race"at Rennsport Reunion was a sham. It was great to see them all together but many were being driven like they were doing parade laps.

There's a happy medium in there somewhere...

[k9handler]

not me Will...I have not had any Porsche time the past 5 weeks. Between the NCO Academy and my wife in the hospital my freetime is next to zero. Sounds like it was a good day out, even if a couple cars were beat up a bit.

[SLO-BOB]

Originally posted by Lukesportsman
I've heard from several British drivers that we "Americans" vintage race like wimps.

Yeah-These wimpy guys really need to get some testosterone -



I think it's funny that a British guy would call anyone a wimp.

As far as preservation-Svandamme-I think you're missing the point. It's not what you can do with a historically significant, i.e. unreplaceable, car, it's what you should do. If you want to drive 10/10ths racing, why not do it in something that they still build instead of destroying history?

[PorscheGuy79]

Originally posted by k9handler
not me Will...I have not had any Porsche time the past 5 weeks. Between the NCO Academy and my wife in the hospital my freetime is next to zero. Sounds like it was a good day out, even if a couple cars were beat up a bit.

Im sorry to hear that Smitty, I hope she feels better.

[svandamme]

Originally posted by Sebring77


As far as preservation-Svandamme-I think you're missing the point. It's not what you can do with a historically significant, i.e. unreplaceable, car, it's what you should do. If you want to drive 10/10ths racing, why not do it in something that they still build instead of destroying history?

because it's a lot more hardcore to race a 917 than it is to race an electronic brain. and whoever manages to pay for it... does what he wants... i wouldn't handover my ownership decisions to a commitee either...

i'll agree , it's painfull to see em crash , but they will most likely be rebuilt, and as long as they aren't rebuilt by West Coast Customs and Xibit , it's all gonna be well executed...
i'de rather seem em raced into snot, and occasionally dinged, then i have them locked up in some rich poofs vault , so he can go down and drool a bit on it when nobody's watching...

[SLO-BOB]

Originally posted by svandamme
because it's a lot more hardcore to race a 917 than it is to race an electronic brain.

Ahhh-back to testosterone. Well that makes it worth it then.

[svandamme]

Originally posted by Sebring77
Ahhh-back to testosterone. Well that makes it worth it then.

the 917 is all about testosterone, anyone failing to see that ... has low levels of it himself... can't remember any girls racing that sucker... no girlyboys either...

the thing is dangerous , and mean.... no driver aids whatsoever and stupidely powerfull ... how could this not be about testosterone ??

apart from the pink pig beeing pink , i don't see any features that could come from a design buro full of girls ...they'e be to worried about how elegant they would look getting in and out... and at what location they need vanity mirrors... no sir... the 917 has none of that crapola... thank god for that..

[limble]

I have to agree with svandamme. "Ride em hard and put em up wet."
There are just too many Porsche garage queens out there. My SC is a daily driver. The only time I don't drive it is when I need something from Home Depot that is more than three-feet long.

[ted]

Originally posted by Sebring77
As far as preservation-Svandamme-IIt's not what you can do with a historically significant, i.e. irreplaceable, car, it's what you should do. If you want to drive 10/10ths racing, why not do it in something that they still build instead of destroying history?

Basically true, I think it was Brian Redman on a Speed TV interview that said something about Racing vintage cars is great fun for the drivers and to let the spectators see these historic cars on the track. He said these car all have a history of fantastic races, wins and battles that led to them becoming legends. As a driver at a vintage race you are never going to upstage these historic accomplishments. So as a driver there is no reason to push these vintage cars in that manner.

That said I think some of the Euro vintage scene owners have some HUGE egos. Hired gun drivers, all in the name of winning.

As a spectator I like the west coast vintage race format at the Monterey historics. Well it is really an exhibition not a race. I prefer to enjoy each car individually and not in the context of a race. I enjoy the sound and sight of a 1935 Alfa Romeo Grand Prix car chugging down the straight. If you go for the race you will be bored and and though there may be several passes for the lead the finality is about as in question as a Harlem Globetrotters basketball game.
Parnelli Jones guest drove his old Mustang Trans Am car to a second place and when asked how he liked vintage racing he told Speed Week, "I finished where they told me too.

That said I'd rather see a scripted race that see vintage race cars damaged.

I'm not a NASCAR fan but I think its a waste when they have 8 cars out at once during the weekly "big one".

Rubbin aint racing, though NASCAR would disagree.

[Doug E]

Just curious, but were they running on the F1 loop or the NS?

[ted]

Originally posted by limble
I have to agree with svandamme. "Ride em hard and put em up wet."
There are just too many Porsche garage queens out there. My SC is a daily driver. The only time I don't drive it is when I need something from Home Depot that is more than three-feet long.

Imho some race cars are worth preserving.

This fabulous racing car gave Porsche it's first of 16 wins to date at LeMans. 1970 was a great year for the 917, winning Porsche's first outright victory at LeMans (driven by Richard Attwood and Hans Herrmann Winner) and the Sports Racing Championship outright.
Picture is just a model of the real 917.


Now if only some one would repair the old Coliseum so it can be used again for concerts, bullfights and sports games.