Re: An update...
 

LOL!!!

Just wanted to comment that you have a terrific spirit about all of this. Your honesty about your own driving abilities (..limits and fears..) are refreshing. They'll make you a better driver in the long run!

Good luck with your restoration!

SmileWavy

Start slow. Work up to the speed.

My 3rd DE was at VIR a couple of weeks ago. I finally felt like I was understanding what the car was doing and better how to correct it. More importantly, as I understood it, I could push myself harder.

easier term is never decelerate during the middle of the turn. The best is down shift before the turn and accelerate at almost the of the turn. If I MUST decelerate during the turn, I downshift while keeping the throttle a bit. Never let go the gas and brake.

You should never downshift mid corner. That is about the worst thing you can do, it will almost certainly unbalance the car.

Modulate the throttle (throttle steer) to ease car weight forward or back. More throttle will increase the front end push, less will bring the back around and decrease the front end push. Too much "less" can induce trailing throttle oversteer and turn you round backwards. Too much "more" can understeer you off the road. And the 911 WILL understeer.

The key is be smooth, maintain balance and therefore available grip. Look where you want to go and steer towards that point.

If you are really in trouble stand on the brakes as hard as you can and have the slowest possible crash.

Your mileage may vary, ofcourse.

The most valuable lesson I learned from Karting was to get your braking done in a straight line! With such short wheel bases, karts amplify what happens if one brakes while the wheels are turned or when the car (kart) is off balance (you go back end first real quick). Our 911's have very short wheel bases as well and most of the weight is concentrated in the rear. Taking into account that most of our cars are pre ABS, straight line braking should be a mantra during spirited drives on the street.

I love spirited drives in my 911. This post, however, is another reminder to me to use self restraint and common sense while enjoying my car on public roads.

Mike

Yes, brake in a straight line, but our 911's also can benefit from a little trail braking into the apex.......

Cheers

stuartj.
What I meant was MUST decelerate, in the case if you dn't brake, you hit the car in front. For example someone cut in front of you in the middle of the turn. Honestly, I have no safe solution in this situation. Many times braking while in the middle of the turn scared the hell out of me :D

Sorry to take you task on this but this is very bad advice to offer others.

Gears are for going, brakes are for stopping. Brakes offer a much higer level of control than any attempt to use engine braking.

If you havenet already done it, may I suggest you get out on a giant cone course at high speed, maybe with an instructor, and experiment.

Stuart

I learned my lesson on the on-ramp to south 280 from 87 traveling about 70mph. I hit the tightest part of the turn and decided I was going too fast so I slowly lifted off the throttle (before I knew how to drive a rear-engine car). Feeling the back squirm around, I immediately got back on it and the car planted itself on the road. I actually gained speed as I went around the corner. That was amazing. I love these cars.

Glad you wern't hurt!

stuartj
I know I know. Everyone, don't read that reply of mine :)

Chuck Miller is definitely a great guy and the only one I'll let touch my 911.

I too had a TTO scare when I first got the car... had an S2000 try (playfully) pulling away when I quickly walked up behind him in a curve. With no where to go, I did the unthinkable. Luckily she only swerved a bit, but I sure thought I was gonna end up on the shoulder. Lessons learned: don't lift and don't give-in to the temptation to show-off!:o

I nagree with Stuartj, if you must declerate in the middle of a turn, brakes are the way to go.

Not only are brakes better for stopping/slowing progressively- they are cheaper.

Damn Man! Best luck on the repair...but that melted into my brain not to lift...not that I do anyway..or my car would be in the picture. Did you ever say how fast you were movin?

I've always understood that a firm and steady foot on the gas going in followed by a gradual acceleration coming out was the way to defeat the tendancy to swap ends. I learned this lesson in a hot rod V-Dub way back when. Coming in too hot is hard to fix gracefully, especially when you are surprised by an obstacle or sudden turn in the road. The straight-line braking comment is well taken. These are race cars, after all and we must approach them with a modicum of respect...and fear. Thankfully you were not injured!

Are you talking about left foot braking? That would still transfer weight to the front wheels and allow the back to rotate.

just an update for those who didn't see my other thread, the dents are all out, and the shop is blocking the car this week... I'm trying to have the car done enough for a show on june 10

here's the thread...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/273387-my-car-being-painted.html

No. LFB is a valuable skill to have, but as you say it will still transfer the weight.

Gear changing mid corner is a very bad thing to do. Braking inappropriately mid corner is a bad thing to do. But if you must, because "someone cut in fornt of you in a corner", be moderate and control the weight transfer of the car.

Most of this discussion only becomes relevant when the car is being driven near the edge of adhesion, ie on a track.

The golden rule is whatever got you into trouble- brakes, power, steering- modulate it (be gentle). A total lift of the power can cause problems. An armful lock, jumping on the brakes, all these things will change the weight ditribution of the car, therefore the load on the tyres and therefore the level of adhesion available in any particlaur circumstance.

If you have no grip, you have a bigger problem than you had before.

Here is a good example of what not to do:

http://tinyurl.com/q5acy

"Don't lift" most fundamentally means "keep the weight biased towards the rear" - keeping a moderate (not planted) pressure on the throttle will keep the end down. Managing the balance of the car is the key.

Braking, clutching, lifting off the throttle will all move the weight to the front wheels at a time when the the rear wheel arc is wider than the front wheel arc, and you will oversteer - a lot, and pretty fast in an older 911.

I agree with both "both feet in" comments - on the track, you absolutely want to lock up the brakes b/c you will still scrub a lot of speed off, and because anyone else close behind will know where you are going (off the track in a straight and predictable path). On the street, it's better to keep control and staying running.

YMMV