How not to corner

[brittbolen]

Remember, when people tell you not to lift in a corner in an old 911, they're not kidding. This is what happened to me yesterday going around this corner in Bahama, NC. Luckily nobody was hurt, nobody except my poor car, which I've made a mess of, like a moron. Really, this is why people drive on the track, where there is runoff room. Anyway enough about how dumb I am!

Damage that I can see includes the damage to the door and quarter from when the car rolled briefly onto its side. There is a dent in the front bumper. There is some soft tissue damage to the license plate frame. The muffler is well, smooshed.

The only thing that worried me was the oil leak I saw once we pulled the car onto the flatbed, seemed to be dripping from the right front of the engine. Not sure, maybe a return tube or the cooler? We'll see











The fire department guys from Bahama were great, showed up in like 30 seconds, they were there before I had time to think anything other than "i'm not dead! I'm not even hurt!"

Amusing anecdote: I set the parking break before I climbed out the window.

Britt

[IROC]

Sorry to see that!! The curve doesn't look particularly sharp - how fast were you going?

Hopefully just the "S" hose to the tank took a beating and is causing the oil leak.

In that one pic, it looks like the fireman is just going to pick the car up by hand. :>)

Mike

[osidak]

Ouch - I learned my lesson (not to lift) by going into someone's from yard. No damage except lots of mud and having the owner have a good laugh at me.

Good luck on the repairs

[Tim Walsh]

Sorry to hear about the accident, but it doesn't look too bad at all. If you need anything let me know.

[Jims5543]

In 1986 I was driving my cousins 1973 911 that was track prepped. Very fast car with full racing suspension.

I was 19 years old and told my cousin 20 years later that was the dumbest move he could have ever made letting me drive his car.

I was cooking around an exit ramp at 90 MPH and realized I was too hot fo rthe turn. I lifted...........

I did a 720 down Palmetto Parkway in Pompano Beach missing several cars on the road by inches and came to a rest in the center median facing the wrong way.

I at least had enough sense to push both pedals in during this spin. The traffic had stopped and I turned her around. When I got to my friends house we examined the car very closely and found blades of grass imbedded in the tire beads.

I returned back to my cousins house with my tail betrween my legs and explained what happened. My cousin rocks, he was more concerned about what I had done wrong driving wise and went on to lecture me about lifting in a turn with a rear engine car.

It was then that I realized I had to have one of these cars.

Sorry about your misfortune, I hope your car is on its way to a speedy recovery.

[livi]

Glad you are not physically hurt and hope the damage to the car isn´t to bad.

And thanks for posting ! The old P-car enigma we all read and hear about but most of us street dwellers never encounter.

I don´t want to take advantages of your misfortune - but it would be very informative if you could describe what the circumstances were and how the sequence of events took place. If its at all possible, that is.

[Ptoscano]

Sorry to hear..looks to be a quick fix.

What does that mean ...not to lift in a corner ? And what is considered a old 911 ?

[acapella8]

Glad you weren't hurt at all, take pictures of the repair progress if you can.

[ttweed]

Originally posted by Ptoscano
Sorry to hear..looks to be a quick fix.

Oh yeah, that'll buff right out.

What does that mean ...not to lift in a corner ? And what is considered a old 911?

"Not lifting" means keeping your foot on the throttle pedal. "Slow in, fast out" is a meaningful mantra in rear-engined cars. The weight shift induced by deceleration forces in the middle of a turn causes "trailing throttle oversteer" (search on TTO on this forum) which can result in a spin.

To me, "old 911" means anything before '74, but to some people it means 1989, when the 964 platform was introduced. The later suspension designs were tweeked towards understeer at the factory to prevent this kind of mishap, although the rear weight bias of the 911 is present in all the models.

TT

[silverc4s]

Britt,
Wow! I bet that was a scary 10 seconds or so.... I am glad that you are okay, and that the car did not seem to sustain much damage.
Suggestion: when fixed, sign up for a local PCA autocross school, or beginners DE, so you can find these limits and play with them. Better environment for the experimental driving technique

[brittbolen]

In short what happened was this:

Going around that corner coming out of Bahama I was doing about 50. I thought the limit was 45, so I wouldn't have any trouble. Then this downhill corner pops up and I've got tire squeal. Thats ok, I've done this kinda of speed in a corner before. Then a large black truck/SUV pops around the corner coming in the other lane, and, well, i had a moment of panic, and i lifted, I don't remember if I came of a lot, or a little, doesn't matter now. The back started to come around, I caught it once, twice, then just like that, bang, I'm backwards. Both feet in, hope for the best. Car went backwards into that ditch, came to a stop, rolled onto the door, and then righted itself.

Once I knew everyone was ok (i had a passenger) I threw the fire extinguisher out the window, crawled out the window and looked for fire.

Silverc4s: that was a scary 10 seconds! The extra embarassing thing is that I've done 2 DEs and my 3rd is this weekend! I should have known better, both to slow down, and not to lift.

Ptoscano: This was a 1970E.

Tim: You got any rust free sheetmetal? I'm going to just restore it now (assuming the mechanicals are ok) so I'll need some stuff, it's too bad my bondoed up fender was unhurt! Driver's door, pass fender, license plate panel, driver rear bumper with 'S' trim (maybe). I guess the rest is fixable.

thanks for the kind words folks, live and learn.

B

[kach22i]

Live and learn I guess.

I'm going to have to get out to a Driver's Education session one day myself.

An education is an expensive thing they say.

[Tim Walsh]

Maybe, maybe not. I've got a shell of a 79 that you can pull sheetmetal from, but it got crunched in the rear(mostly pass side). Let me know what you need and I might have it.

[kach22i]

There is opportunity here to do a RS or RSR clone, replacing body parts with fiberglass will save some weight, right?

Lemons and lemon-aid and all that jazz.

[Zeke]

I did the same thing on a cool down lap at Willow Springs Raceway, believe it or not. I'd say I had more of a brain fade than you did as no SUV suddenly appeared. I just cruised into the corner at the same speed and didn't pu the power down like on all previous laps at higher speeds. It doesn't take 10 seconds, more like 1.5 and you're in the ditch. Many cars would not have done this and in many it could have been worse (think another SUV!) Goes to show you that you've got to keep your attention on these cars at all times and anticipate the unexpected as expected.

Glad to see you and your passenger were unhurt and that the car is not too bad. You'll want to check the door gaps after you get the metal pulled out before going any further. The thing about big roll over dents like those that they are much easier to pull back out than crush type wrinkles from a collision. My guess is that the car is only slightly damaged unless the motor moved by being shoved by the muffler. That the other area I would check very carefully when it gets to the shop.

Best of luck to you. You may have found the slippery slope now that you will be working on the car. Nostatic (Todd) hit a chunk of broken retaining wall sent his way by another completely different accident on the other side of the freeway and now he is a track junky.

[Seeeu911]

Glad you are OK !

I too learned that lesson, but it was not in a porsche. It was in a Fiat 850 Spyder off the side of a cliff on a caribbean island....wow.. what a rush.. I have never ever ever have done it again..

[brittbolen]

kach22i: RS & RSR are cool, but i could just buy one of those... no i'll do a resto, i like my car... maybe i should sell my track seats to help with funding.

B

[pwd72s]

I guess we all remember out first "trailing throttle oversteer" experience. Mine was in my first P-car, a '66 912. Spun backwards into a ditch with a fairly steep slope. I lucked out...walked to a nearby tavern, a guy there had a 4X4 pickemup with a Warn winch...pulled me out, and miraculously no damage.
The tow out fee was a round for the house, on me. I considered it a bargain!

[mschuep]

"trailing throttle oversteer", aka bass ackwards in a ditch syndrome. Almost been there several times. Indeed sorry for misfortune, could be worse.

-Matt

[FrayAdjacent911]

Can someone explain what 'lifting' in a turn is?