Has modern technology made power boring?

[twobone]

I drove a friends BMW 540i the other day. The V8 has some great stats 290 HP and 324 lb-ft of Torque.

The thing is, the car is so damn smooth and the sound is so muffled, that the car feels like its got an electric motor. It was just kind of boring.

I'm sure the 4000 lb weight also has something to do with it.

On the plus side, the car does feel solid and unbreakable, but it felt so isolated.

I'm starting to better understand the true allure of my SC.

It feels alive under my butt, foot and thru that little Momo.

My SC also has a noticable "cam" (4000-6000) with a proper rush of sound and fury when you hit it.

I think that my 81'SC is the Ultimate Driving Experience!

[Jack Olsen]

Technology isn't the core issue so much as design. The 540 isn't a sports car, so it makes sense for it to be solid and unremarkable. I've driven my 290 hp and 3600 pound Jaguar on the track, and it wasn't much fun at all. But it's nice for traveling.

More recently, I got to drive a 997S and a 996TT on the track. They're super high tech, but both were a lot of fun to throw around (within reason, of course). Their only big downside was their weight -- it was especially frustrating during braking. Still, they're a lot more fun than my sports-car-wannabe Jaguar.

Still, the only way to really get that 911-style 'connected' feeling is to have a light car with no power steering or brakes. But I don't think a car manufacturer could make a buck selling cars like our old 911's any more.

Thankfully, Porsche made a whole bunch in the sixties, seventies and eighties.

[lateapex911]

I used to own an RX-7 turbo. It was pretty smooth and very capable. I got a lot of tickets. Trouble was I was aways ripping to 8K, and going 100. I think I went over 100 every day for the first summer I owned it...and it was the cars fault. I never FELT like I was going too fast. It seemed so happy at those speeds.

So I sold it, and bought a car of similar capabilities.....a 1973 911E.

The joy of the car is ...no tickets. Because every second I am driving it it reminds me. "Hey...hear my engine? Sounds good at 7K! doesn't it ....Don't hit that crack in the pavement! Watch the rut or I'll leap off the road! Whoa...watch it...DON't go into the corner so fast or I'll spin off backwards!!!"

It talks to you....

I guess I just needed a little (OK, contant) reminding...

So, yes, in some cases technology (refinement) has had some negative efffects.

On the other hand...if you took the 540i for a drive, and then drove the same car with the high spec engine...the new M5, I wonder if you would draw the same conclusions?????[I]

[HardDrive]

I know where twobone is coming from. A lot of sports cars, especially the japanese cars, are almost overly refined. The performance is delivered in such 'clean' manner, that its easy to ignore.

I love driving my SC because I feel engaged, I feel like the car and I are working together.

Don't get me wrong....the power in some of these cars is downright scary.

[drsimonwong]

Not necessarily boring but certainly you are more removed from the experience. Of course if you get to drive a modern day RS or a Cup car.......it's just like the good old days except waaaaaaay faster :-)

[72doug2,2S]

It's not just sports car wannabes, when I test drove a used boxster a few months ago I didn't grin until the RPM's hit 5,000.

With my longnose, the grin starts when engine fires up and sounds from the sport exhuast and smells hit ya, it's fun at all speeds.

The key words for me are "light, involved and unrefined."

[svandamme]

power steering , braking, tcs ,ecs , abs , to me those things fall in the same category as "moisturizers", "hair conditioner" and "salades"

i ain't diggin it

[72doug2,2S]

This is subjective, but a visual nonetheless. Which one is fun from the beginning, and which is fun after your going real fast?

[Superman]

We're back to a familiar topic. You know.....the one that if we have to explain it to you then you're still not going to understand. Todays cars are technological marvels. They can monitor your tire pressures for you. Quite, smooth, etc.....

I've driven raw muscle cars from the sixties and early seventies. They may not even be as fast as today's commuter sedans, but they're a rush to hammer. No doubt about that.

But the 911 is a whole different ball game altogether. I have not driven an MFI car but I'm DYING to. I've driven a lightened 911 with stiffer suspension, and was just amazed at the controllability and tossability of it. After having driven my tired, soft, heavy SC in AX events for years, trying to maintain control with the car sagging into each turn, a lightened, stiff 911 was just a HOOT. I felt I could make it dance.

And then there's the sound. Like I say, if we have to explain it to someone, they're still not going to understand. Also, giving someone a ride in a 911 is not noteworthy. To understand, your hands have to be on the steering wheel and your feet have to be on the pedals.

If you can drive a 911 at an AX event and not get hooked like heroin, then find another hobby. Perhaps basket weaving or needlepoint.

[rs911t]

Also, giving someone a ride in a 911 is not noteworthy.

True, the experience is at a different level with your own hands on the wheel. But, passengers in my '72 2.8S MFI seem to find their rides memorable, if not noteworthy.

[CharlesJones]

I think modern cars are definately less fun to drive than old ones. I drove a friend's 996 as very high speeds, and it was a superbly capable and refined car but there was absolutely no comparison to my '84 carrera. In the 996 you get none of the drama or adrenalin rush like you do when the old 3.2 comes on cam. People might think that I would say that because I can't afford a 996, but that still doesn't make them anymore fun to drive!

I also used to have a 1952 Morris Minor, and that was positvely antiquated but great fun. There's no way is its present day equivalent is going to be so fun to drive. I'm not sure if I'd like to be setting out on an icy winters morning in the 1952 Morris though...

[911skb]

In some regards it comes down to what are your preferences for driving fun:
If you want to go 150mph without hearing any wind noise, not spilling your coffee, the kids can quietly play their GameBoys in the back seat, etc, etc.....then the answer is ....... 911 just make sure your kids are small....everyone has ear plugs and you use a sports bottle to drink your coffee from! :-)
Seriously though, going that fast in a 'new' car, unless you live in Germany, what's the use? Going 55mph in an 'old' 911 can be fun anywhere. It's not just how fast you CAN go, it's how little you have to slow down when the corner comes up....

[techweenie]

Lte's parse this out:

More power can never be boring.

How it's packaged and delivered to the ground can be.

There are very few 22-2400 lb. cars out there anymore. Everything conspires to push weights up near 3,000 lbs., minimum.

The whole power-to-weight ratio is an academic discussion. A lighter car is more agile and responsive. 500 cubic inches/500 HP overcoming 3800 lbs. is always going to feel different (IMHO, inferior) to 164 cubic inches/240 HP overcoming 2250 lbs.

[Emission]

My dad has an '02 540i 6-speed. The car goes like stink (0-60 in about 5.5 seconds), and it is a vault... but it is HEAVY. I've borrowed/driven it to SFO and back (in one day) a few times and there is no better car for the highway. For the twisties, it is just too isolated.

New cars have an emotional disconnect. It's too bad.

[Superman]

Originally posted by techweenie
The whole power-to-weight ratio is an academic discussion. A lighter car is more agile and responsive. 500 cubic inches/500 HP overcoming 3800 lbs. is always going to feel different (IMHO, inferior) to 164 cubic inches/240 HP overcoming 2250 lbs.

True. While today's suspension systems are uber-capable, it seems to me that physics dictates that a 2000-lb car will simply slip around a corner faster than a 3200-lb car.

Also, there is a thread over on the vicious OT Forum regarding a VW bug with big wheels and a snorkle. Fact is, many of us cut our teeth on Beetles, and gosh they are fun to drive. IN FACT, if you place just about any driver of a modern car at the wheel of a VW Beetle, they're going to exclaim "Hey, this thing is fun to drive!"

edit: I've seen 356's at our local road course, and those little buggers are FAST.

[anthony]

I think the biggest thing that has made power boring is weight. I drove a 350hp C5 Vette the other day. It was boring. Even though it has mostly better everything than my stock SC, pushing that extra 700 pounds of weight around corners just seemed boring. The C5 and most newer cars also insulate you from the sounds and smells of the engine, transmission, as well as the feel of the road. There's something visceral about the sounds of the motor reverberating through the sheet metal in an old Porsche.

Similarly, my 2100 pound 914 seems more fun down a tight twisty country road than my 911 does. The 914 feels like a go cart compared to the SC. Similarly the SC felt like a go cart compared to the C5 Vette.

[Moses]

I recently drove a Mercedes AMG E55. Until the new V12 M5, it was the fastest sedan ever produced. Supercharged 469 HP. Amazing car. Much faster than my 3.6 911. I'm not going to say the car is soul-less, it's a fantastic car. But if I have some free time to go drive in the twisties, the 911 is my choice. It's visceral. No power steering. You feel everything. I fall in love with that car all over again every time I turn the key.

[drsimonwong]

Weight is the key. Drive a Lotus Elise and feel the marvel of the 21st Century returning to old values....
But for 99% of new cars out there are going to feel more like battlecruisers rather than powerboats.

Simon

[twin plugged targa]

Simon beat me to it,
For the 1st time I have to dissagree with Jack Olsen, there.. I've said it
'But I don't think a car manufacturer could make a buck selling cars like our old 911's any more.'

The Lotus Elise/Exige has proven this wrong!.
It seems a very successful car in the UK and has shown a following (I dont know how successful) in the USA.
It will never be sold in the hundreds of thousands but Lotus could not build them that quick.
Another car with raw feel is the Morgan which is still hand built and has a huge wait list for new cars!.

I wish I knew how successful Autofarm has been with it's custom RS/RSR's?

I must I get a huge kick out of driving my 71 targa and enjoyed driving (when it ran!) my 1st car the 86Ragtop.
I was not really overimpressed when I drove the 2001 996Twin turbo the 1st time. It just felt dissconnected and efficient.
My current loaner a Nissan 350Z is only fun when I turn off the traction control and let it get 'loose!' - which is just about all the time when I am alone!.

Rgds Ben

[Emission]

Originally posted by Moses
I recently drove a Mercedes AMG E55. Until the new V12 M5, it was the fastest sedan ever produced. Supercharged 469 HP. Amazing car.

One of those E55's ate me for lunch in my 930 on the highway.

At least I was having more fun!