Lets hear some Used car buying experiences...( long but informative )

[yasir]

..... and don't hesitate to comment as to what would you do to avoid making such mistake again..
I'LL START WITH MINE:
1)- Back in 1999 looking for a sports car and decided to go for a Supra TT and after 2 months found one in VA.I called the guy,inquired about the car history,how many owners,any accidents and blah blah blah and after a PPI ( no compression/leakdown done,didn't know about it ) i ended up buying the car.
The following day found out the car had painted panels,instead of 2 owners it was 3 owner car and the title still had a lein on it

LESSON LEARNED:

Do not trust the owner.
Always run a carfax report
Have the car inspected professionally for any accidents
Make sure the shop that's doing the PPI knows their ****..

2)- Fast forward to late 2003 and i am now looking for a 930 Turbo and 2 years ago the time finally came to step up and buy my dream car.This time around however i was very particular with my criteria for the car espcially the owner and in the process i even turned down quite a few good cars.Anyway back in feb'04 i got referred by a member from Ferrarichat.com to contact a guy in Knoxville,TN who i was told is th right person to ask for Porsches.
Low and behold i contacted this guy one day and after finding out about him,i kinda trusted him and took him for his word,first mistake The damn guy was a friggin "Charmer " and told me it was a one owner car ( 2 owners ),no paint work ( questionable partial rear q-panel painted ) and that he will provide me with the name of the PO,which he never did,always had a friggin excuse.
I brought the car in for a PPI at a Porsche dealer in TN only to found out they never touched the car and charged me $350 I was reassured it was a mint car and to go ahead and buy it.Anyway to cut long story shortthe porsche dealer ****ed it up so bad in the PPI that i couldn't go after the ****ing seller but i did make the dealer pay for a complete PPI at a local dealership.
I think i was fortunate as the car was indeed in excellent condition,all service history,no leaks,super compression/leakdown and all that except the questionable partial q-panel respray.

LESSON LEARND:

1)-NEVER EVER believe the ****ing owner again no matter how CHARMING THE GUY IS ( no offense to any one ).
2)-How nice the car is,is all subjective and before you buy the car make sure you look at it one final time.
3)-DO NOT get excited,DO NOT & i repeat DO NOT let your guard off when you do see your dream car.You still need to look at the car very carefully,be better if you bring some one with you who is familiar with that particular model.
4)-PPI is a must but if the guy who is doing it is a moron then why even get it done.Make sure the shop is familiar with the problem areas of that particular car and better yet give them a check list of the things you want looked at and keep that as a record.
5)-Have a body shop,again some one who is familiar with that particular car,look at it to make sure there are no surprises with the paint work on the car.
6)-Service history is a must especially if it's a performance car and you should know how to interpret them too e,g excessive brake work,frequent fluid changes and stuff like that hints towards possible tracking the car,nothing wrong but hey i NEED TO KNOW...
I hope it wasn't boring reading all that but if we can save another member from getting jacked when buying a used car...then we did our job,didn't we..

[Rich76_911s]

I bought my first car from a pelican. My parents gave me a car at 16 I am now 27 and still have that car. So the P-car was the first car that I ever bought.

The first thing I would say is NEVER trust anyone. This person is held in pretty high regard with good reason, but he really mislead me on some pertinent information. I did not get a PPI done, which would have been really challenging to do due to the remote location of the car. Honestly I really thought that due to this persons reputation he would not mislead me so I put 100% faith in his word. I would suggest getting a PPI even if you trust someone, somehow when 0's add up on a purchase honesty seems to diminish.

I asked the seller about getting a PPI done, but it was avoided and I was talked out of it. Never let a seller convince you that what you want is not necissary. Or if they don't want to help with it when you are 500 miles away forget about it. It is an important step in buying a car that is this old.

As a first time buyer I got pressured into a decision. Never let the seller put pressure on you. If he sells the car to someone else so be it there are thousands of Porsches for sale all the time. It might be the right color and it might have the options that you like. But if you are getting pressured into a purchase think long and hard and make the decision on your own not with the seller breathing down your back.

Consider what your relationship with the seller will be after the purchase. I have written emails to the seller 3 times asking for a little help, no response over a period of months. I haven't been unfriendly or anything like that I've just asked some general questions and nothing. Does he owe me a response no i guess not, but I would have thought it would not be a big deal to give me a hand on some questions.

I would suggest taking a friend with you who will not be emotional about it. Have someone there to keep your emotions in check. Maybe someone who thinks that you are nuts for buying a car that is a quarter of a century old.

I like my car and maybe paid a little too much. It isn't really the price of the purchase that bothers me, what bothers me about it is being mislead by a professional. As I have learned more and more I realize more frequently that there are more pieces of information that the seller would have known due to his profession that went unshared.

I hope that whomever reads this really takes note of it. Print out this thread and take it with you when you go to look at the car. Keep your feet on the ground and use your head. learn from my mistakes and don't make them.

Best of luck with your car buying experience.

Rich

[ZX9RCAM]

I alrerady posted the long version of my first experience.....

Long story short.....After several days & several phone calls & after a price was stated, I drove 5 hours to buy a vehicle .

When I got there was told that the seller had another offer the night before I got there for more money, so bottom line, price was now $2,000 more than previously stated in an email.

Needless to say, I drove home in my rental........

[Jays72T]

Ouch Yasir but thanks for sharing. I've bought quite a few used cars, mostly I got what I expected. You can never trust a seller, do your homework and never be emotional about a car, there's always another. My worst buy was a '95 GTI VR6, bought it used in '98 from Bob Lewis VW here in San Jose and will NEVER deal with them again. I didn't have it checked out since it had a warranty but 2 years later found out the car had part of the emission system (EGR) remove and BL said I removed it! Plus, the car had the pass door painted that faded faster. Really did have a lot of fun in that car with some AX and track days but don't think I'll buy another VW, car had too many little issues.

[JavaBrewer]

Back in college I bought a used 5.0 Mustang GT from a Ford dealer in El Cajon. Two years later my smog + registration comes up and of course the car fails smog because ... all the smog equipment had been removed. I never touched the engine on that car. I go back to dealership which refuses any help and claims I modified the engine and to basically pound sand.

I ended up selling the car to a friend in Utah. Got a new VW Jetta III - another huge mistake...

[Rot 911]

My car buying experiences have generally been quite pleasant. For example here is my post from October 2001 when I bought my '86 Carrera from a fellow Pelican:

"Remember in Mid-October when BK911 wanted to trade his 86 Coupe for an early 911 Targa? He wrote "Anybody want to trade their old 911 for a newer one? You’re in luck! I want to trade an 86 Carrera Coupe for an early 911. I’d prefer a 2.4E Targa, but will consider any 70 – 73 911, Coupe, Targa, T, E or S. Let me know what you have and let’s make a deal!"

Well it so happened I had my screaming yellow 72 E which I had finally sorted out the MFI, but was secretly longing for a coupe. What started as a couple of tenative e-mails ended up being about 50 e-mails and as many pictures being sent back and forth. And now, the rest of the story. For those who don't know, I live in mid-Missouri and BK911 lives in Baltimore Maryland. We agreed that a good place to meet would be in Ohio. Naturally I was a bit worried driving my '72 as I had done a bunch of work on it and hadn't really taken it on a long trip. Anyway, at 5:00 a.m. Saturday morning, with every tool I think I might need to rebuild the car on the side of the road, I set off for Ohio. 8 hours later, with absolutely no problems with the car, BK and I meet at a grade school in the small town of Sommerford. It was cold and spitting sleet! We spent about 2 hours driving and inspecting each other's car and freezing! At 5:00 that evening I headed back to Jefferson City behind the wheel of a Guards Red '86 Coupe and BK heads off to Baltimore in my '72. This has to be the most unusual car purchase I have ever made. Oh, the '72 drove flawlessly and made around 23mpg at 80 miles per hour the entire way! Thoughts on the way home: The '72 is all snarling, in your face, brute acceleration while the '86 was a more quiet refined sports car, where the speed is there, but you don't have that wailing engine telling you how fast you are going, but one look at the speedometer lets you know you are breaking the speed limit by about 30mph or so. Anyway thanks to all for you help with my '72 and I look forward to all your help as I tinker a bit on the '86. Guess I need to also change my signature block."

[CBRacerX]

I've been much more fortunate than most posts here! I've bought ~40 cars, and only about 10 from a dealer. My purchases have generally been from enthusiasts, and they have represented things "as they are".

Chris

[scottb]

I once was trying to purchase a BMW 320i. I called a dealer about 50 miles from my house, and was very clear on what I was seeking. Among other things, I was very specific about wanting chrome wheels. We had several discussions on the options, accessories and price. We agreed on a price.

The day came for me to get the car, and my parents drove me to get it. When the sales person came out and presented me the paperwork, there were no chrome wheels on the invoice. She said it must have been an oversight, and went and talked to her manager. She came back and said the wheels would cost me another $1,000. I reminded her of our deal. She went back to the manager and came back with a "take-it-or-leave-it" offer of an additional $500 for the wheels. I left it. Me, my parents, and my cashier's check for the car left. I bought a 280ZX instead.

[Jeff]

Man Rich that stinks. I've only purchased one car and the steering wheel from you off the board. I had a great experience with both. I guess I got lucky. Have sold a few things here also and have not gotten stiffed.

The first car I ever purchased my dad handled the negotiations. The second however I took the lead and got hosed by a guy my parents knew. Since that day I will walk if the deal is not good. A good, but expensive, lesson everyone should learn.

[emcdan]

I'm kinda in the middle of a litigation about a 911 I recently bought off Ebay. There were several things the PO failed to mention about the condition of the car. My hat is off to Ebay though. If you get a lemon from an auction, they really pursue the seller for you. Hopefully the PO is going to re-emburse for some of the ommitted problems with the car. We will see.

A PPI should never be a question. Make sure and always have one done. I've learned my lesson.

[boxster03]

I think too many people focus the PPI on the mechanicals and not enough on the body (that is the expensive part to fix) get a second PPI done by a porsche expert body shop to check for accidents, mods, non original paint, kind of paint used (ie. single stage enamel appropriate for early yrs) etc.. well worth the extra expense.

[RobertsStole2nd]

I have purchased around 20 or so cars, some from dealers, some private sale, new and used. The purchase of my '86 Coupe was a great experience (on consignment from a Porsche enthusiast), but the worst experience involved the purchase of a *new" 1995 VW GTI VR6 from a VW dealer that has since gone out of business. They sold me the car with 24 miles on it, and after giving it its first wash a few days later, I noticed in the fading afternoon light that the passenger fender was a different shade of red than the rest of the car. I took it to a body shop and they confirmed that the car had been in an accident and repaired. To make matters worse, I had a host of mechanical issues including a check engine light that the dealer could not diagnose (it came on during my first drive home) and a vibrating transmission that they replaced *twice*. The dealer completely denied that the car had ever been repaired - even though I showed them the overspray on the wheel wells! Unreal. Long story short, I got a lawyer involved and VWoA bought the car back from me. Lesson learned: if you can't even buy a new car with complete confidence - trust no one in the car business.

[Dixie]

A couple points come to mind right off...

1) Don't trust pictures.
While living in Ft. Lauderdale several years ago, I started looking for a nice 911. Guy in Naples sent me pics of his really nice looking SC. When I arrived to see the car, it looked like crap! I asked what happened. The answer, "Oh, I took those when I bought the car five years ago."

2) Shop your PPI.
You should carefully select who does the PPI. Build some kind of relationship with them (no matter how cursory) and talk to them first about what you're looking for in a 911. This is the only way the shop will know what you expect. Case in point: The local P-car shop recommended I look at several cars that I didn't like. It's not that the cars were “bad”, at least not for the price. And that was the issue. Eventually the shop realized that quality of the car, and not price, was my main concern. Another pitfall to avoid is using a shop that sees PPIs as an easy revenue source. (They get the new guy to give the car a cursory check, and charge you for a through, expert appraisal.)

3) Check you enthusiasm.
It's your money, so trust no one. Think that cars a nine-out-of-ten? In a month you'll realize it’s a 6.5 car at best. The car will not have changed, but those rose-colored glasses will be clear.

[boxster03]

Real good points Rob

[jshape]

I've bought 44 cars over the last 42 years and have had very few bad experiences.

Rule number one - never trust the seller and have the car checked out by a reputable shop before you buy!

Rule Number Two - see Rule Number One.

My worst experience was a 1967 Fiat Spyder. The problems that were hidden from me by a reputable dealer were amazing. The owner of the dealer was so embarassed by the tactics used by his sales staff that he actually ended up offering to take the car back and to sell me a new MGB at below his cost.

My best experience buying a used car is the current 911 that I bought from a guy who was on the east coast. This seller was actually overly critical of his car. I had it checked out by a friend who lived near him who indicated to me that it was exactly as represented - there were a few problems but they were known problems. I was actually quite surprised when the car showed up and the paint was not falling off!

I've sold two cars on the Internet - one on eBay - and have taken great pains to describe every single flaw that I knew of in the ad and really hoped that the buyers would look at the car first (they didn't) and have a PPI done (they didn't). In both cases, the buyers thanked me for my honesty and indicated that the cars were as represented. Still, the process made me nervous.

Overall, I think most people are honest and are not trying to screw you. Even so, a couple of bucks spent in advance of sale will give you a lot of peace of mind.

[vincenza]

Long Story but fullfilling!

Here's mine .
As you all know owning and driving a P-car is not for everybody . A friend of mine here in Oxnard that I've known now for 10 years turned me on to 911s . He first owned a 912 E , I think ) . He then went on to buy a 911 sc 81 . He liked to drink but thank God not drink and drive so I got to be the DD , How lucky is that ! After driving his cars off and on for 5 years I got the fever . By the way I owned a 240 D at the time . The slowest slug ever . When I climbed into his cars I thought I had a rocket strapped to my As# . Now back to the story . From the 81 sc he found a 88 911 Blue Diamond with 65,000 in the Recycler with no price in Santa Maria . Brother of Owner was selling it because of a death . Owner did not want the car in his garage anymore ( reminded him about his brother ) This car was a cream puff , perfect with white linen leather . My buddy stole it for $ 22,500 in 1999. After the purchase I drove his 81 sc and followed him back to Oxnard . I think it took about an hour and 10 min. We were flying . After this I had to own one .
In 1999 After looking at over ten 911s in the Southern California I was very disgusted with the lying sellers that I had met .
By the way I always took my friend with me to overlook the sale and to calm me down when I got to excited over the cars . If he wasn't there I would have bought the first one I saw .
On a trip back home driving on Santa Monica Blvd after being dissapointed again after looking at another sub par 911 something caught my friends eye at the Lexus of Santa Monica dealership . A 1989 911 silver anniversary , very straight car ! OK I know your all getting board but the story gets better . A doctor from Palm Springs was trying to make a deal for a new lexus ( SUV ) 1999 at the time and using his 911 to trade in.
Wife said the 911 had to go . Too hot to drive in Palm Springs and just wanted the lexus . Yes the Dr. was visibly annoyed that he had to give up his baby.
He wanted $30,000 for his car and the dealership was willing to cough up only 25,000 . Just when he was ready to walk and I stepped in and asked if I could get involved . I got together with the GSM and told him I would be willing to pay $ 26,500 for the Porsche to help him put the whole deal together . He added another $ 1,000 for the Dr and I drove my baby home that day .
It had 83,000 with full books and records and I now have driven 179,000 Glorious miles . I replaced one clutch , 2 alternators and lots of Tires . Oil is changed every 2000 miles . I have owned a 1967 Jaguar 4.2 roadster , a 2002 BMWand a 240 D ( 285,000 miles) But the 911 is by far the Best Car I have ever owned !


Vinnie From Ventura
1989 Silver Anniversary

[JR_NYC]

A) Don't trust the seller, even if he frequents Pelican and has a "reputation" in the Porsche community. Don't take what the seller says at face value and don't become friendly with the guy, it will just cloud your vision. It is a game of cat and mouse and the rule of buyer beware puts the burden on you to discover whats's not being fully disclosed. Remember, he/she just wants your money. This sounds callous but it's a business transaction. In the end, he gets your money, you get title and you have no recourse in a used car transaction with a private seller (in NYS at least). Some states have lemon laws but here in NY it only applies to dealer transactions. Court is usually not worth the $ unless you're talking real money.

B) PPIs can be a real problem in areas where there aren't a lot of Porsche mechanics. Outside of big metro areas you may only have one or two choices. Most likely your seller will know all these shops and they may be biased, especially if the seller is into p-cars and he/she is seen as a repeat customer. After all, you drive back to where ever you live and you'll never spend another $ there but the seller probably will.

I am a bit of a nut when it comes to mechanics. If I bring my car in for parts to be replaced I will usually mark things with a pen or sharp object and check afterwards to make sure they were in fact replaced. I check screws and bolts to see if they were removed. I check the color of my oil/brake fluid/whatever before and after to see if it was actually changed. This stems from problems I had with a VW dealer a long time ago.

C) Mechanics often focus on the mechanical condition of the car but don't scrutinize the body as much. Take the car to a body shop in addition to a p-car mechanic. In my experience, I was surprised by what they'll see with their trained eye. Sometimes its hard to see differences in color on body panels or gaps.

If the seller balks at any of your requests, be prepared to walk. People will come up with all kinds of excuses that sound reasonable. Don't compromise your standards.

All I can say is that I speak from a recent negative experience.

I looked for over a year and ran across lots of flakes. In one case, I thought I had found a nice Carrera in Chicago and the seller said he'd even drive the car out to NYC because his family lived in the area. I found a mechanic in the Chicago area and made an appt for the seller to bring his car in for a PPI. It all sounded great and I was ready to pull the trigger, pending a clean PPI. The guy never showed up for the PPI and never called me again...If the seller is flaky, take that as a sign and run.

[austin552]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by yasir
[B]..... and don't hesitate to comment as to what would you do to avoid making such mistake again..
I'LL START WITH MINE:
1)- Back in 1999 looking for a sports car and decided to go for a Supra TT and after 2 months found one in VA.

Wait a min. You found a Supra TT. Where is it now? If you sold it you had to come out ahead. One with 1000 hp was on ebay for 80K. Supras are the the...

[yasir]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by austin552
[B]

Originally posted by yasir
..... and don't hesitate to comment as to what would you do to avoid making such mistake again..
I'LL START WITH MINE:
1)- Back in 1999 looking for a sports car and decided to go for a Supra TT and after 2 months found one in VA.

Wait a min. You found a Supra TT. Where is it now? If you sold it you had to come out ahead. One with 1000 hp was on ebay for 80K. Supras are the the...

I had the Supra for 6 years and just sold it 2 months ago with 28,000 miles it just didn't have the pinnache i wanted and with F&F kids all over the place ( loud mufflers/funky color schemes) i decided to sell it and look for another Porsche.
Supras are great but honestly once you drive a Porsche Turbo it's hard to go to another car and with C2 Turbo i just never fancied driving the supra so it's gone....

[yasir]

Here is the summary so far :
1)- Do not,I REPEAT DO NOT, trust the owner especially the DEALER.
2)-PPI is a formality unless the shop is familiar with the car/model.
3)-Most of the dealers know **** when it comes to the PPI.
4)-PPI will most likely check for the mechanical issues and the shops usually have no clue no clue when it comes to checking for any body work,so make sure have the car looked at by a reputable body shop..
5)-If the owner is extra nice and going out of his way to do the sale,then i would say BUYER BE AWARE...It was not only true in my case but in quite a few other replies too..
6)-When you do find your car keep your emotions in check and be very careful looking at the car.
7)-ALWAYS BRING IN A FRIEND WHO IS PRETTY FAMILIAR WITH THAT PARTICULAR MODEL AND WHO DOESN'T GET EXCITED WHEN HE SEES THE CAR.. In my case i did bring a Friend with me but i made 2 mistakes a)-The moment i saw the whale tail and the flare fenders i felt paralyzed and got soooo excited that unfortunately i completely let my guard off b)- The car is ( looked ) so flawless that even the friend got taken in..

Fellas keep the experiences coming..