Effect of salvage title on value?

[obaa996]

I was talking to the owner of a '96 993 that's for sale. It sounds like a nice car; white w/gray&black interior, 61k miles, completely stock. Everything sounded fine and dandy until he let the bomb drop; the car has a salvage title.
Apparently, the car was given a salvage title while nearly new (~3k on it), as a result of getting sideswiped on the left. It apparently required new f&r fenders, door skin, and I imagine, bumpers, mirrors, etc.
The car runs fine, and appears to drive/stop straight. In fact, until mentioned, I'd never guess that the car was hit. It surprises me though, in that I'd think it'd take a lot more to total out a nearly new 911 (back then when it happened)....
Now personally, I don't mind a salvage title, as long as the car has been fixed right, and drives correctly. However, I'm only planning on keeping this car for 4-5 yrs as a commuter car; I'm worried what difficulties I might encounter when I tried to sell this at some later point. To drive the issue home, I'm under the impression (from the seller's wife) that the car has been for sale since April.
What's a car like this worth? Assuming everything checks out, the only impediment would be the cost; I've heard things like 30%-50% penalty for a salvage title. Is that in the ballpark? If so, then this car should be in the $15k-$20k range? The owner thinks it's worth considerably more, but given that it's not selling...

[avendlerdp]

No to hijack this thread but...

I have always wondered what the effect of a salvage title is on an early car. My 70 T has a savage title due to damage in a garage fire. There is no evidence on the car now and the car is pretty nice. Does a salvage kill it's value?

-Alex

[BruceC]

Check with your insurance company before you buy. Mine (USAA) will not insure a car that has a history of salvage title.

[fastteo]

I've owned Toyota's that have salvaged titles. You can't even tell the difference. I don't know if it's the same for Porsches. Citibank and PeopleFirst (owned by Citibank) will give you a loan on Salvage. I am also with StateFarm which didn't complain about Salvage titles.

[obaa996]

I'd pay cash for the car, so financing is not an issue. About the insurance issue; I called my agent (State Farm) and asked about it. My agent said that they could only insure for liability, unless I brought the car (or pictures) to prove that the car was completely repaired (no appraisal necessarily needed). Once they had that, they could issue comp/collision insurance, and the car would be covered to the same extent as any other clean titled car. I don't know if that is typical or not, but I do have ~15 car/motorcycle policies with them, and that may be helping my situation.
I really do question how such seemingly simple damage would total out a car; there must be something more that wasn't indicated. However, the car has been on the road for ~10yrs/58k miles since, with apparently no further issues, and the owner is very open to a PPI, which I definitely wil have done).
I'm mostly trying to figure out how to price the thing. I imagine I'd have just as difficult a time as him when I try to sell it. I'm sure if I priced it low enough, there would be no issue selling it. By that time, the car will likely be old enough that no one would finance it anyway.
I just want to make sure I'm covered on the purchasing side, so I'm not shorted when selling.

[techweenie]

If the car isn't 35% below market value, walk away.

There are three sources of potential pain: incomplete or poor prior repair, insurance coverage problems, and a reduced pool of potential buyers when it's time to sell.

It's much less of a problem on an older 911, but still a problem.

[Zeke]

Originally posted by BruceC
Check with your insurance company before you buy. Mine (USAA) will not insure a car that has a history of salvage title.

Ditto on my truck. Only 4K damage, but due to it's age, a total in their eyes. A scratch in mine.

Now, a newer 993 would have to take a hit to be totalled. I'll pass.

[fastteo]

Originally posted by techweenie
If the car isn't 35% below market value, walk away.

There are three sources of potential pain: incomplete or poor prior repair, insurance coverage problems, and a reduced pool of potential buyers when it's time to sell.

It's much less of a problem on an older 911, but still a problem.

I agree. The only reason I would even consider a Salvage is if the car has everything I want and none other comes close.

[ddavidv]

Originally posted by obaa996
My agent said that they could only insure for liability, unless I brought the car (or pictures) to prove that the car was completely repaired (no appraisal necessarily needed). Once they had that, they could issue comp/collision insurance, and the car would be covered to the same extent as any other clean titled car.

I worked for one of their main competitors, and salvage title cars were charged for the same coverage as an undamaged car, but if were totalled, would only be paid around 50-60% of the value of a 'clean' titled car. In other words, you were paying for insurance on a normal car but only got paid for a reconstructed title car. Nice way to rip you off.

I don't think it is wise if you plan on selling it within, say, 15 years of it's build date. After that, it becomes a different market. However, it will still be difficult to sell even if it has been repaired correctly, as most people are simply terrified (and sometimes rightly so) of reconstructed cars.

On a collector car (the early 70s Porsche example) it's my opinion it matters far less. Collectors typically are smart enough to judge the CAR and not rely on the paperwork alone. It may turn off some, but not nearly to the extent as a newer car.

[Bobboloo]

You will be in the same boat as the seller is now down the road. The only buyers will be deal seekers.

Consider also that the owner paid no where near market price when he bought back the salvage. He probably bought it at a 75% discount. If he's trying to sell near market then that means he's trying to get paid twice for the damages the car recieved. It just doesn't work like that.

Only make him an offer that you can feel secure about, leave your number and then walk away.

I my self would only offer amount that I knew I could recoup by selling off some of the major parts easily. Motor,tranny, and maybe body panels that someone would buy to update an earlier car. Any other parts are the payment for your trouble. Figure $13k to $15k

[NoLift911]

You can hang new parts on a car with a damaged frame/unibody and nobody may notice. It is more the mechanical condition of the car.

I will tell you that that car had to sustain some pretty serious damage to be declared a total loss - not just body panels. Read - serious mechanical damage to the underlying structure and damage in the 10's of thousands of dollars.

I was rear ended in a new 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee and they did everything they could not to total it - I did everything I could to get it totaled. The damage was amazing. Some 19k in damage and the insurance company was all set to fix it, so I took it to another shop to push it to 24k in damage - then they folded. (75%) of value in VA

Would you really want to be in that car in another accident? It could happen. It may fold up like a tin can.

I was doing some consulting for NHTSA (fixing their very messed up database) and saw some horrifying statistics regarding accidents with salvage titles. Yes - they will and can be wrecked twice. My favorites involved the cars that had been welded together(one good half - one bad half) and basically disintigrated and get torn in two on impact. Very disturbing what some shops do to get cars back on the road when they are clearly destined for the junk yard.

Good, dependable bodyshops that know what they are doing are few and far between. Who fixed this one?

3k miles, run don't walk.

There are plenty of solid used car values out there now - do yourself a favor and keep looking.

Just my 02.

-Jeff

[Vipergrün]

While I agree that in this particular case, it's probably a good idea to bail out. Even if they totaled the car at 75% to value, you are talking about 25K-30K or more in damages. Now, my SC was "totalled" by my insurance company. In hind-sight, it probably should not have been. I think they saw "Porsche" and "repair" and freaked cuz they could not find used components and NOS OEM prices were insane. My car is being rebuilt and backdated and will be a much better car than before the accident. I sure do not think I should be subject to a 30-50% price penalty just because of the salvage title, especially when there will be no indication of an accident.

[zotman72]

Two years ago, I bought my theft recovery, salvage titled SC for $10.5K. I am please as punch with it, and will not be selling it any time soon. The observation on the older salvage-titled 911s are mostly likely true, as the value is in the car not paper. On the other hand with a 993, I would run away from a salvage titled one. Too much chance.

[Bobboloo]

My car is being rebuilt and backdated and will be a much better car than before the accident. I sure do not think I should be subject to a 30-50% price penalty just because of the salvage title, especially when there will be no indication of an accident.

Please don't take this wrong Brad but I don't think that the 30 - 50% reduction is a penalty. It's the value of a salvage car. When an insurance company totals a car, and pays you for it, your damages have been recovered. (hopefully but that's another story) When you buy back the salvage you have exactly that, a salvage vehicle, and the price you buy it for should reflect this.

No doubt the car will be awesome when the work is done but it will never bring the same resale value as a comparable vehicle with a clean title. Of course that's no reason to stop you from enjoying the car, however, and I would probably do the same in your shoes. I just think you might be setting yourself up for disappointment if you think you can sell down the road for market value. Documenting the damage and repair will diffenently help come resale time. If you plan to keep the car forever then it all becomes a mute point.

[drsimonwong]

You will only ever be reassured that the car is true if you put it on a jig and get measurements to compare to factory specs.

When you spend enough money you can get most things fixed. Problem is when only a little money is spent and you get a car that just looks fixed.

If this car is not SUBSTANTUIALLY cheaper than market value then you may be running risks financially. The safety issue is also very, very important.

993's are not rare cars. Why take the risk? Another one will just be around the corner.

Don't forget you can never fix a bad history.

Simon