Lifting Points

wcc · 11-29-2005, 04:36 AM

I want to lift the rear end of my '87 930 to check out some accelerator pedal linkage. I want to lift both sides and support with jack stands on the torsion tube ends.

I done the search and read TONS of info on this. But I'm still left with some questions.

First off I WILL NOT lift the car with the engine/tranny. That is out of the question for me because frankly it scares me and the owners manual doesn't recommend it. I don't want to damage anything internally or externally.

So with that said I found this pic from this thread:

Chart/Map of Jack points on 88 911

If I lift it at points C & D at the same time (I have 2 jacks) that should raise the rear of the car. But here is my question:

Will there be enough room to place my jack stands? I doesn't look like it, so where would I lift it so I can place the stands too?

Thanks in advance......

turborat · turborat's Garage

Are you aware of the jack plate tool? They are on eBay and other sites for abour $20. It fits into the jack tube and allows one to raise the car with a floor jack. Once lifted, there a couple of options for the jack stands. I have a '78 and it does not have the plates welded at "C" and "D". I think the '87 tub does. So, jack stands can be put there without the interferance of a floor jack.

Dantilla · 11-29-2005, 05:00 AM

"C" and "D" are measuring points for straightening out a bent tub- NOT hard points for jacking the car.

I have the above mentioned jack pad, purchased here at Pelican Parts. Lift the car one side at a time, and put jackstands under the torsion bar covers.

wcc · 11-29-2005, 05:00 AM

Yes, I have one of those and thought I might pick up another one. They are a nice tool to have. However, using the jack tube it lifts the entire side of the car (front and rear tires). I've read on another thread that when lifting both at the same time can cause the rocker panel to bend.

So, by lifting one side at a time won't cause the opposite side to slide off the the stand? This is what I might try....

KFC911 · 11-29-2005, 05:03 AM

I always use the jack plate tool. If you want to raise the rear of the car, lift one side, place the jackstand under the torsion bar tube, then lift the other side and position the other jack stand under that t-bar tube, then lower the floor jack leaving just the rear of the car in the air. If I'm lifting really high, I'll lift one side a bit, the other side to the height I want, then raise the side I started on until she's level. Hope that makes sense...

edited: Oops...I type too slow

turborat · turborat's Garage

I have never had a problem with rocker panel. I lift my car in this manner regularly for preparation for DE. That jack point was desing to lift both front and rear wheel.

My appolgies to our host. The jack plate tool is available here for less than $20.

wcc · 11-29-2005, 05:07 AM

That makes a TON of sense. I'll just do it like you said. Just one side at a time.

Thanks a lot you guys.....

KFC911 · 11-29-2005, 06:16 AM

One more thing I forgot... If I've got her raised very high, I also lower her in 3 stages...lower one side a bit, the other side all the way down, then back to the side I started with. Be careful, but it is safe if you do it in this fashion. My jack stands 'cradle' the t-bar tube, but as you are probably aware, you don't want to over do it and cause the stand to slip due to a severe angle.

Venetian · 11-29-2005, 06:26 AM

Quote "C" and "D" are measuring points for straightening out a bent tub- NOT hard points for jacking the car."

How come there are pads there? Would this not be for jacking purposes??

KFC911 · 11-29-2005, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Venetian
How come there are pads there? Would this not be for jacking purposes??

My car has the pads. If you were raising her on a lift, the pads would serve that purpose (i.e. lifting all four points at the same time), but when using a floor jack, the rocker panel jacking point is used. Even when my car is in the air, I prefer to place my rear jack stands under the t-bar covers instead of the rear pads (unless I'm doing rear suspension work), as that is much more stable imo.

wcc · 11-29-2005, 06:47 AM

From what I learned from reading tons of info on this is that C & D are really supposed to be used for a 4 point lift when lifting the entire car. Like when it goes to a shop. But I thought you could put a jack on those spots but if you do you can't put a stand on the torsion tube. So you might as well use the jack tube on the side.

I don't know about that tub straightening thing.

Now, I typed too slow......

Andras Nagy · 11-29-2005, 09:30 AM

Hi Bill,

If all you want to do is lift the entire rear end, just put a jack under the engine (at the seam of the case or the "lug" where the through-bolt is), and lift away. From this spot, you will get the highest lift, the safest lift, and you have only one jack to use.

If then you want to use jack stands beause you'll be under the car for a while, then put the jack stands under the torsion bar "ears", and off you go.

Why make something easy so hard?

wcc · 11-29-2005, 09:46 AM

I don't want to get in a debate over this because I've heard both sides of the coin quite well with all the threads I read on this issue from my search. It looks and sounds easier, I'll give you that, but it isn't something I'm willing to do. Just the thought of me jacking up the Porsche with the engine makes me nervous. I wouldn't do that to my wife's Chevy or my Toyota so I won't do it with the Porsche. The bottom line for me is that I don't want to risk damaging something. But thanks for your suggestion....

Andras Nagy · 10:05 AM

Hi Bill,

Don't mean to belabor this point, as you seem to have read lots of stuff. But I've been doing this with all of my Porsches back to 1970, and I have truly never heard of anyone who has reported that they have damaged their car by using the engine. Don't forget, the engine is supported at four places, two in the front and two at the back, and in terms of weight and all, the engine is the most heavy. So in effect, you are lifiting the heaviest part of the car, and body is going up for the ride.

If you lift from the body, the engine is going up for the ride, and this is much more of a trauma for those four engine mounts.

And, finally, when people remove their engines, how do you think they get them out of the engine compartment? By letting the engine sit on something, such as the full weight of the engine is on those seams (note that I did not say the sump plate, for that would be a disaster).

jet911 · 11-29-2005, 10:00 AM

Bill, I know your position, however Andras is correct. I believe in Wayne's book 101 projects, he suggests the engine as a rear lift point.

You cannot compare lifting a P-car to lifting a Chevy - come on now...

The bottom line is if you do not feel comfortable lifting by the engine, then don't do it. Use the lift pads instead.

Good Luck!

KFC911 · 11-29-2005, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Andras Nagy
...
If you lift from the body, the engine is going up for the ride, and this is much more of a trauma for those four engine mounts....

).

I must respectfully disagree. IMO, there is no more stress on the four mounts when lifting the car 'the way is was designed to be lifted' than when it's sitting on all four tires. Think about it....
My technique is not 'hard', although it does involve a couple of more steps. I'm like Bill, I read all the pros and cons, and prefer not to take even a slightest chance with the most expensive part of the car. Why did Porsche engineer in the rocker panel jack points? We'll just have to 'agree to disagree' on this one. Say, how do you feel about Steve Wong chips? Just kidding of course

edited: It's also a bit different (when removing the engine) to have just the engine weight only on the jack vs. the entire weight of the car imo.

Andras Nagy · 11-29-2005, 10:12 AM

Hi Keith,

I have a 1983 SC, therefore, don't need no stinking Steve Wong chip!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!

wcc · 11-29-2005, 10:19 AM

I know. A LOT of people here do that exactly and you are right. Of all the things I read not one person said they had a problem lifting the car with the motor.

But my first concern is with the motor and tranny mounts. Again probably nothing to worry about but why chance it. If you are going to take the motor out I still wouldn't lift the entire car up with the motor. Then when the motor is ready to come out you'll be lifting the motor/tranny not the whole car.

The Case isn't that thick, and I know you put padding on to protect it and using a seam. But what about the torsional pressures you are applying to the motor? Can anyone say with certainty that you aren't causing any deflections inside the motor? I can't.

All I'm saying is I don't know what could happen when lifting the car with the motor, so why take that chance. I'd rather take my time using the locations supplied and recommended by the manufacture in this case.

IMO.....

KFC911 · 11-29-2005, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Andras Nagy
Hi Keith,

I have a 1983 SC, therefore, don't need no stinking Steve Wong chip!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!

I'm just picking, but I can see the ENVY coming through in your post... you should have colored it green

jet911 · 11:45 AM

Okay, I have an '86 Coupe. Just went out and grabbed my owners manual. On page 76 in bold black letters it states: "The vehicle should never be lifted or jacked up from underneath the engine or transmission housing, or the front or rear axle. This could lead to serious damage." It goes on to say, "Lifting with floor jack - The same lift points as illustrated for the hoist also apply when using a floor jack." The lifting points using a hoist are defined as follows: "The Front - lift points are located at the corner of the floor pan at the front under the side member and wheel well wall. The Rear - lift ponts are located at the corner of the floor pan at the rear under the side member."

Don't think anything more needs to be said...