my bent "frame"...

Brad01mc · 11-29-2005, 08:48 AM

Hi!

Well, recently I learned that my "new" '78 911SC has been in an accident. Not too big of a deal, but it's disappointing none the less.

I'm curious to hear what you think. It's on the drivers side rear. I should also mention that I can hear the bearing, or something "whirr" when I load the suspension on the drivers side (ie/ turn right).

Anyway, I would like to get this fixed and live in SoCal (Redlands, 92373). Any shop recommendations would be helpful and ballpark figures if they can be estimated from the pictures. I've never had a bent "frame", so I'm not sure what to expect.

thanks!

Brad

Thomas Owen · 09:42 AM

How are the panel gaps? Have you had a 4 wheel alignment? Usually when a 911 gets hit in the rear the impact travels quite a way into that longitudinal that you are photographing. You would be in for a job trying to straigten it, in fact, the car may have already been on a frame jig and been pulled back to spec (even though you still see bent metalwork).

From here the main thing is how it looks from above (the gaps) and alignment.

Rear bearing is probably going - not a big deal to replace. Get Waynes books.
Good luck -

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

I think they'd have to pull the engine and most of the suspension to get that a Cellette frame jig. Then it's pretty simple. Steam clean the underside, use some body sealant, reinstall everything and realign.

scottb · 11-29-2005, 09:41 AM

Call Kevin at Automotive Innovations and Restorations in Van Nuys. Yeah, it's not to close to Redlands, but Kevin knows these cars inside and out. He'll be able to guide you on the best way to solve your problem. He's a skilled craftsman and a great guy. He's also KevinP73 here on the BBS.

Scott

Brad01mc · 11-29-2005, 11:55 AM

hi!

There are no body gaps from the top. It looks fine, in fact, the only reason I know that the frame was tweaked is because I took it into get a 4 wheel alignment and the rear drivers wheel was already at max adjustment. It's toe'd in about 1/4-1/2 inch too much. I can post the alignment specs, but don't have them here right now.

I have sent Kevin an email and waiting for his reply.

Brad

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

I have this, if you/Kevin decide you need it.

I also have the wheel well inner panel all the way down to the torsion tube mount.

Brad01mc · 11-29-2005, 02:55 PM

Hi!

I doubt I could return the car. It was a "as is where is deal". The PO only put ~5000 miles on it since 2000. This damage was probably in conjunction with the tranny and clutch rebuild...approx 5005 miles ago! The PO had very little understanding of 911's...actually, cars in general so I'm sure it happened with the original owner.

I think it got smacked or they smacked something like a wall, post, etc.. and did the body work, but didn't bother to look at the structural stuff.

I doubt its been pulled, otherwise someone would have welded up the tears...I hope...

Any other pictures I can take so that this can be diagnosed better?

If the tub IS bent, I assume it can be fixed?!

Brad

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Brad01mc
If the tub IS bent, I assume it can be fixed?!

Brad

Most likely, yes.

Jandrews · 11-29-2005, 06:06 PM

That "tear" in the boxed section would worry me. That is bound to create a lot of flex under suspension loads. I would try to get that fixed, or at least welded and braced / gusseted.

JA

450knotOffice · 450knotOffice's Garage

Brad, I know this must bug the hell out of you. I found out after the fact that my car had been in an accident in its prior life too but I didn't do a PPI so it wasn't caught. As far as I'm concerned, that's past history and is now water under the bridge. You've got what you've got.

What you need to do now is swallow hard and take the car to someone who knows how to properly pull a Porsche straight. You are not the first, nor will you be the last, to have a Porsche with a bent frame. It can be pulled and the box sections repaired. It'll cost you some, but when it's done, the car will be "right".

It's kind of funny, but after all is said and done, you will actually feel more attached to your "baby" than ever because you were the one who really fixed her and made her right again. Do you know what I mean?

See you soon at one of our SOCG runs buddy! Keep your chin up.

KevinP73 · 11-29-2005, 09:59 PM

I don't know where you you e-mailed me but I can respond here also. most likely the car can be pulled on a conventional frame rack. A Celette could get a little expensive and is a bit over kill for this type of repair. Feel free to call me at the shop and we can discuss it further.

Brad01mc · 11-30-2005, 08:28 AM

Hi!

Well, I've already made that "emotional" bond with this thing, so I'm not really too upset. I paid under $10K, so I feel that I got a fair deal and don't mind the fact that I'll have to "dump" some money into it. Like you say, it will make it better.

I more upset with myself for not seeing the damage, but it's tucked away and not too severe, so I'm accepting of the problem. In other words, the honeymoon is not over!

Scott et al., I appreciate your support and I'm continually amazed at this community. It's great! Yes, you will see me again. In fact, I need to host an "IE drive-by".

Kevin, Hi! Yeah, believe it or not, I emailed you from this site! I'm still learning and didn't want to bother you with a PM. Perhaps I'll just PM for now on. Anyway, thank-you for being so honest about the car. I know there is always a possibility that it might get expensive, but I'm glad that you're looking out for my (the fourms) best interest. I'll call you today when I get a chance...

by the way, I have a fourm related question... What does "bump" mean in a post?

Thanks!

Brad

450knotOffice · 450knotOffice's Garage

Bump.

When a sting hasn't been responded to in a while it'll fall down the page as other strings are started or responded to. Eventually it'll fall off the first page to the second page, and so on. A "bump" is a little mini post that serves to bring the string back to the top of the first page where more people can see and respond to it.

It renews the string, basically.

KevinP73 · 11-30-2005, 08:45 AM

any reply in a thread causes it to return to the top of the list. When someone wants a specific thread to continue they will "bump" it back to the top. Most threads die off once they fall off to page two or beyond.

Wrecked944 · 11-30-2005, 10:08 AM

I hope I'm not hijacking this thread if I ask a related question...at what point is a 911 unibody too "bent" to be repaired? Is there a point at which merely straightening the chassis is insufficient? I would think the sheet metal and welds would all be stressed and weakened in a big crash. Can they be re-welded and reinforced? And if so, then what might such a repair cost? Is this a thing in the hundreds or thousands?

KevinP73 · 11-30-2005, 10:23 AM

Thats a tough question. Most often it's a judgement call on the part of whomever is paying for the repairs. Insurance has a different criteria than a repair shop would have or even the car owner. Insurance will "total" a car when the repair estimate hits a predetermined % of the cars fair market value. As a repair shop owner I'd be more "forgiving" if I were repairing the car for myself as opposed to for the car owner. The car owner usually has his/her checking account to determine what will be repaired or scraped.
With a decent frame rack costing a minimum of $85.00 an hour it doesn't take much to rack up a huge repair bill and exceed the cars value and "desirability" once repaired.

Wrecked944 · 11-30-2005, 11:12 AM

Thanks for the reply! I guess I wasn't taking the cost into account and was jut sort of pondering it from an engineering perspective. I would assume any crash compromises structural integrity and I often wonder how/if that integrity can be regained...but I'm not an engineer and I don't play one on TV...

KevinP73 · 11:38 AM

The law dictates that any repair has to return the vehicle to the pre event condition. There is a major struggle in this industry to define "pre event condition". Strictly speaking as a repair provider I'm expected to repair a vehicle to standards that were originally achieved by the manufacturer using technologies and equipment that is NOT available to me. I've seen studies that compare oem spot welds to spot welds made by after market welders. You'd ask yourself what difference could that possibly make, but when your talking about the timing of airbag deployment in a serious crash it all becomes a factor. The factory has designed all the components to work in concert. But if aftermarket spot welds fail 10000th of a second sooner that could mean only a 50% inflation of the airbag. Suddenly it becomes a real concern.