How should I repair this rust?

brittbolen · 01-07-2006, 07:28 PM

So what is the best way to fix this rust behind the fender and below the windshield?

right now i've been brush at it with a hand held wire brush, which has removed some of the rust, but not all of it... perhaps i need a wire brush on a dremel tool, or even an angle grinder?

Whould Ospho or POR Metal Prep be help1ful in removing the rust?

Thanks!

Britt, knower of nearly nothing

[edit to complete a sentance]

Panzer909 · Panzer909's Garage

Looks like you're in for welding work. The panels near the hood look especially shot. Take a grinder to it for a no-BS test. If it holds up you've got a fighting chance with POR but again, it looks like a long shot.

I ran into similar issues when I pulled the fenders off my TR-6 several years ago. Ended up replacing a LOT more than I had first imagined. Turned out to be the first step in a full restoration........

jtratza · 01-07-2006, 07:36 PM

Sell it on ebay...just kidding. Hope that is not as bad as it looks.

Paul Thomas · 01-07-2006, 08:04 PM

Britt,
If you are preping for a paint job anyway, have the whole car media blasted. That way there are no secrets or suprises. If you cant find anyone over your way, Ellis Media Blasting in High Point is great. Don (Ellis) did my car and does tons of hod rods and local Nascar stuff.

Paul

Harlan Chinn · Harlan Chinn's Garage

The rust looks pretty severe. The best way is to remove (cut) it all out, but it may not be an option.

DzusFast · 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paul Thomas
Britt,
If you are preping for a paint job anyway, have the whole car media blasted. That way there are no secrets or suprises. If you cant find anyone over your way, Ellis Media Blasting in High Point is great. Don (Ellis) did my car and does tons of hod rods and local Nascar stuff.

Paul

Best advice....media (Sand) blast it. Professionals the way to go but....

From peeking through your window it appears that your doing this in your garage right? so, if you plan on doing all the prep work yourself [or the better part] then get a cheap, portable sandblaster. That's what I started with on my '73 but ended up doing a full restore. You can clean / blast a chosen area and asses the extent. Rust is cancer, it will continue where you left off if not contained and prevented properly when doing paint maintenance.

BTW that area of the car is notorious pre'76 for rust and you can buy some of the panels for replacement. The damage at the pillar bottom (Windshield) doesn't look that extensive to freak about, talk to a good bodyman after clean-up. Or before.

Good luck and remember: "Don't Panic".

DzusFast · 01-07-2006, 10:58 PM

Yes, I was right. My bodyperson concurs, some patchwelding/grinding and some replacement. Not for the beginer she says.

SC Schrauber · 01-08-2006, 01:27 AM

If it is not rusted through - Fertan!

Frank

aigel · aigel's Garage

If you plan on owning the car for a reasonable long time, cut and replace. If you plan on owning it only for a few years, sand or media blast and POR. However, always think about the other side. Will you be able to get to it?

George

19-911-65 · 05:32 AM

Hey Britt,

Welcome to "Club Rust".....The areas in your picture don't look that bad!! You can take a sharp awl or punch and see if you have any "rust through" by poking the rust areas.

For a test area:
Take a old flat blade screwdriver and grind a nice sharp "chisel" end on it. Remove all the rust scale that you can with the chisel and then buy a "wire wheel/brush" from Lowes and chuck it up in your drill and "wire off" the balance of the rust.

At this point you should be down to just about bare metal. You can now apply an acid wash to treat and remove the balance of the rust. The "POR" acid wash aka- "Metal Ready" basicly works on the last dusty film of rust....it really won't remove rust, like scale, on a large format.

The metal is now ready to weld/prep and paint.

Now the not so good news is you have only seen the tip of the "Ice Burg" The more areas you expose the more rust you will find. Now that you have taken an hour or two to clean up the 10 square inch area you can see why others have suggested media blasting!!!

To me the bottom line would be how long you plan to keep the car? If it is numbers matching and you plan to pass it down to your children's children then at some point it will be more than worth while to take the car apart and address all the rust issues.

If it is a driver and you want to have fun driving it before you sell it for the next one then patch and go.

The rust in these early cars can just go on for ever!

Good Luck!!

Glenn

Crachian · 01-08-2006, 05:25 AM

Can't you get to the backside of that from inside the boot by removing the ventwork and hinge, or from inside the car by removing the gauges and dash? You gotta see if those inner panels are swiss cheese.

Halm · 01-08-2006, 06:43 AM

Britt, sorry to see this about the car. If it were my money, I would take Paul's advice and head to a professional media blaster. I think he can also hook you up with an excellent paint shop that is reasonably close to the blaster.

PM or email me if there is anything I can do to help find resources, etc.

brittbolen · 01-08-2006, 12:09 PM

Glenn, thanks for the info, it's posts like this that send me to sears every sunday! I don't believe I have any rust holes here, just surface stuff so far. I'll grind at it, and we'll see what we find...

thanks,

Britt

brittbolen · 01-08-2006, 09:16 PM

So I got some wire wheels (and a shop vac, mmmm sears sales) and after scratching the big rust off with a screw driver, did some grinding... Driver side will be fine, but the passenger side had a pair of pin holes, Chuck and I will have to figure out what to do there...

But I think it's time to replace the fender joining piece on the passenger size, i've got 2 holes, and a lot swiss cheese, and I've not even started really cleaning it, patching it seems silly... unless it's hard to get the new one properly alignd...

So once the rust is cleaned up, is por15 needed, or should i just fill the surface back to smooth, prime and paint?

thanks,

Britt, knower of slightly more

brittbolen · 01-08-2006, 09:20 PM

oh yeah, on the question of how long i plan to keep the car... i've had the car 14 years, and i'm not planning to let it go, but I don't really have the funding for a true strip/dip/disassemble type restortation... but we'll see what else I find!

Britt

DzusFast · 01-08-2006, 09:53 PM

This area once back together will still be open to those previous elements (moisture, roadsalt, rain) . When you finish poking it with an awl, and screwdriver, invest $30- in the future of your son's car and final prep it like the pro would with a portable

Sandblaster . Sandblasting has always been the way to go. (Sounds good if you go to sell it too!)

That piece on the pass. side is easily ordered, but it would take less time to fill/grind those pin-hole areas as long as you don't get carried away . Rusted metal has a habit of disappearing when hit with a torch, or mig welder; it takes practice, but it's the right way. a 90 deg. Makita grinding wheel minimum necessary to use, and poss. a dremel if your meticulous. After prime and paint, don't forget to spray undercoating.

It's a dirty time consuming job if your gonna do it right but someone's got to do it.

My 0.02

aigel · aigel's Garage

What's on the inside, on the other side of that panel? I'd be afraid that you seal it up nicely from the outside, only for it to come back from the other side.

POR is an amazing product when used correctly. If you do not seal the area very well, it will be back to rusting quickly. POR does just that.

Good Luck!

George

19-911-65 · 01-09-2006, 04:29 AM

Hi Britt,

Hey good job!!!.....you are now on your way....only 8,000 more hours to go and you will be half complete! :-} If you want to cut out and patch/piece in that fender panel let me know and I have one I can cut off a car and send to you.

The area behind where you are working is tough to get to but you can go to a gutter shop that works with copper gutters and they should be able to give you some drops of copper.... small ones are ok...3" x 4" and smaller. Take the copper and cut it to fit +/- best you can and wedge it in behind the holes in the metal, then turn down your mig welder (the heat setting) and you can start to fill them in. The copper will act as a heat sink on this thin metal. Also the hole will "grow" untill you catch some thicker metal and then the hole will start to close up.

The mig welder will act as a "squirt gun" as you SLOWLY add metal back to your car in/on these holes. I feel it is a learned trade but you will get the hang of it. Just spot the edges of the hole to build up the metal....the middle of the hole will close in just fine. When the hole is complete pull the copper backing out and use it on the next hole.

I use an angle grinder (Harbour Freight, they are cheap and when they fry, get another one) with a 4" dia. 40 grit sanding wheel (Home Depot) to grind down the welds. If you have air, a 90 deg. die grinder with a 24 grit- 2" "Rolock" disk also works well on the small stuff.

Good Luck!

Glenn

Ron.G · 01-09-2006, 04:48 AM

I second the hand held sand blaster. I bought one and it works great. The one I have is called a speed blaster and cost 40.00 dollars.

It will clean up the rust better than any wire brush.
Just cover up the car with some heavy plastic but expose the aea you want to blast and be done with it.

Por15 in silver has more solids than the black and will seal tis up nicely. Two coats.

Any ares that have gone through needs to be replaced with good sheet metal like stated above.

Good luck with the project. it can be done by you with professional results.

elflamo · 01-09-2006, 11:41 AM

Just did the exact same thing (metal replace approach). Though the metal was not perforated, I hate the idea of thin sheetmetal sitting there and needing attention in a few years. Also, you can see the lip that sits underneath the outer skin area. Maybe these pics are useful. After welding, I always use some S39 (tin) to protect the bare metal before priming etc. This is my first resto and I learned how to 'weld' myself, something I can really recommend, because as was mentioned before, once you start rust hunting, with the early cars there seems no end to it.... been working on my 1972 911S for 14 months now and covered over 50 areas.

Cheers

Dennis