Advice on dealing with warranty / service dept.

[Steveinatlanta]

A bit of a lurker on this board but read it almost every day.


I am in Atlanta and have a 04 C4S with 12,000 miles on it. Car is not driven hard, but smell the clutch often. Saw a small spot of oil on the floor of my garage. Crawled under the car and could see a spot between the engine and transmission.

Took it to the local dealership. They called me back in less than 2 hours to inform me that the clutch was "completely worn out", 2685.00, not a warranty item and would I like to go ahead and get my 15,000 mile checkup done early. Didn't they think that was odd for a 12,000 mile car?

Comments included:

there is no sign of oil between the engine and transmission

If you're hard on it, it's gonna break.

If there's oil on the clutch when we take it out, Porsche will pay for it.

They see this all the time and was confidently told not to valet park my car.

Get a second opinion? Let them change the clutch? Borrow a postal truck and drive through there front window?


Other than that, anyone have any suggestions? Comments?

Thanks

[earlyapex]

You should not smell your clutch unless there is something wrong with it. However, you obviously don't trust this dealership and a second opinion would not hurt a bit. Have them check the RMS and Intermediate Shaft Seals if you are having a clutch put in.

I'm not surprised that a car manufacturer would decline to warranty a clutch unless there is a manufacturing defect.

[petrolblue83911]

Any other dealers in your area? I went through this on a family members boxter, he had 10k miles on it, dealer said clutch was dead, etc...

-end result after some haggling was that we paid for labor, they paid for parts, ended up being close to 50/50 split, seemed reasonably fair at the time.


-the rear main seal is a pain, no doubt about it, I'd just keep an eye on it, have the dealer look at it each time you bring the car it, or even, bring it in every 6 months or so and keep showing it to them, make it a concern, my experience with our dealers out east was that if you are resonable, and just ask them to keep checking, tell them you are getting a "small pool" of oil on your garage floor, and you want them to just check it...I think eventually if it get's worse they'll do the job for you.

-Good luck!

[TerryH]

I'm no expert at all, but it sounds like you may have oil on the clutch or something is causing it to slip to create that burning smell. Because of the warranty factor, can you try another dealer who may be less matter of factly that it's your fault? It does appear to be a gamble of sorts to let them decide what's at fault here. They're even blaming the valet to avoid insulting your driving style.

I would sit down with the service mgr. and discuss this at length. Clutch should last years even with some abuse. I have to believe there are other issues that caused the clutch wear. Does Porsche has a service rep in your area to settle disputes or is that only for domestics?

[Steveinatlanta]

Thanks - definately will ask about the RMS- should I ultimately have the dealership do the work if the clutch is bad?

[kqw]

Being right there in Atlanta, I would contact the PCNA Headquarters there across from the King and Queen buildings.

It seems to me that failure at 12K miles on a clutch is unusual.

[javadog]

Steve;

If the leak is looking like a rear main seal leak, here's what I'd do. Present the car to a dealer and ask to have the oil leak fixed. If it is a rear main seal, they'll have to pull the transmission and clutch out. While the clutch is out, have them measure the thickness and inspect the rest of the parts. If the clutch is close to needing replacement buy the parts from them and pay them the difference in labor for the warranty work they are doing on the RMS and the work on the clutch. The difference in labor will be small.

I have no idea which dealer you are dealing with but some dealers are great and others are out to make a buck. If you pay them for a complete clutch job and you have a RMS leak, a bad dealer might bill Porsche for the RMS work and in effect get paid (almost) twice for the same work.

Wearing out a clutch in 12,000 miles is unusual but I have seen cars with less mileage than that go through a clutch. It depends 98% on how the car is driven. Smelling the clutch is very unusual, unless it is slipped a lot, with a lot of revs and lots of throttle. Clutches can last well over 100K, if treated right.

Hope this helps,
JR

[dvkk]

Gear oil or engine oil?

[Steveinatlanta]

Excellent ideas, thank you.

Just got a voice mail from the dealership.
"hey Steve, can't figure out what is wrong with your radio so we are replacing it. The seal around the rear window is being replaced. Oh, and we're fixing a small oil leak, no big deal. Just need to know what you want to do about the clutch"

Small oil leak? No big deal?

this after being told there was "No sign of an oil leak"

Javadog is right, if there is a leak, they need to assure me it's not the rear main seal.

Before I call this guy back, could someone please tell me exactly the spot where an rear main seal leak come from?

Thanks, this has been a great help

[Joeaksa]

Steve,

Take a digital photo of your garage floor, showing the leak. Take it to the dealership. Then as Java said, get the oil leak fixed and hope that they have to pull the engine to fix it. Tell them that while the engine is out you want to be there when its separated to check the clutch and bell housing for oil.

ANY oil on the clutch or pressure plate and you just got a new clutch and repaired engine.

JoeA

[Britwrench]

Did you ever report the clutch smell to the dealer until now? As Joe says, take a picture of your garage floor to the dealership and get them to take pictures of your engine showing it absolutely clean with no leaks.

And the small leak? what exactly is it. It's essential to document all this type of stuff, so e-mail and make sure your invoice shows exactly what was done and why. If they have the trans out to do the RMS, removing the clutch is part fo the job. Go and look at the parts with the service manager.

[Steveinatlanta]

Yep - where does the RMS leak from exactly? anybody?

gear or engine oil is right

I want to push him on the small leak

am searching the pelican & rennlist forums

Funny, no e mail address on dealership site otr business cards, just the website

[kqw]

Small oil leak is no big deal??????

They should be dropping the engine to fix that. If that's no big deal well Excuuuse me.... By the way, how did they determine that your clutch is defective

[kuehl]

Assuming you are not the orginal owner (you don't qualify for Warranty Rights Act; O.C.G.A. Sections 10-1-780 through 10-1-794,,, so that's what the $3.00 Warranty Rights Act fee was for), it sounds like they know mama P won't easily open the cookie jar for them, it would seem that a "negotiation" is needed.
Sit down with the Don there and layout your cards, see if the fish bites, they do sound hungry. If that fails, well what the heck, take them up on their offer after you check to see that "by golly, there is oil on the clutch".

[Por_sha911]

Get EVERYTHING in writing (fax or e-mail) in advance: where is the leak and what will they be fixing? Is there a cost to you? Also have them put in writing that they will not do think the clutch is warrantee. Make them be accountable for what they are telling you.
BTW kuehl gets the award for the most jargon in one statement! "mama P" "the cookie jar" "lay out your cards" "if the fish bites"

[kuehl]

GREAT! What did I win? Do I get bonus points for the "Don"?

[i]
BTW kuehl gets the award for the most jargon in one statement! "mama P" "the cookie jar" "lay out your cards" "if the fish bites" [/B]

[SCHNELE]

I am a new car dealer albeit domestics, I do however own a 930. I can tell you to talk to the service manager and start the paper trail on the car, get in touch with the district service rep for Porsche and they will make a discretionary call since the clutch is a wear and tear item, keep pushing them but be diplomatic. GOOD LUCK!

[David 84 911]

My 2 cents...

1- DOCUMENT EVERYTHING, every call, visit, discussion, & take pictures.

2- Find a garage that wants you as a long-term customer, sounds like someone is trying to make short term money and does not realize you driving an expensive car the includes a warranty.

[Por_sha911]

Originally posted by kuehl
GREAT! What did I win? Do I get bonus points for the "Don"?

Wow, I missed one! LOL
You win an all expense paid trip to your local library to learn the English language without the use of ghetto vernacular.