F1 engines one step closer to flat 6 boxer engine?

[82SC]

althought f1 is mandatory 90 degrees...interesting that it says 180 is preferred...

why is it only 911's ran flat engines...


An all-new concept
Although the V8 with the now compulsory cylinder angle of 90 degrees may look like a sawn-off V10, technically it is an entirely separate concept with its own specific characteristics. The V8 has a distinct firing sequence and requires a fundamentally different crankshaft design. Whereas a 72-degree offset crankshaft was used in BMW’s V10 Formula One engine, V8 powerplants can feature crankshafts with either four throws spaced at 90 degrees or four throws spaced at 180 degrees. Standard production cars are fitted with 90-degree crankshaft variants due to their better dynamic attributes, but a 180-degree crankshaft is favoured in racing-car engine design. The improved performance this allows offsets the disadvantages in terms of dynamics.

from www.f1-live.com

[jluetjen]

The 90 degrees in that piece refers to the cylinder bank angle (versus the common V10 angle of 72 degrees), and the crank design. The two features do not necessarily need to be used together. So you can have a V8 with an 80 degree bank angle, but a 180 degree crank (I believe Cosworth did this with one of their later F1 V8 engines), or you can have a V8 with a 90 degree bank angle and a 180 degree crank angle.

A 90 degree V8 crankshaft has the crank pins offset 90 degrees from each other (like a SBV8), while a 180 degree (Flat Plane) V8 Crankshaft looks like a 4 cylinder crankshaft, but it has two rods on every pin. This is the way that Ferrari V8's are made as well as all of the F1 V8's since the Cosworth DFV. You can generally tell the difference by the sound, V8's with a 90 degree crank have the lumpy idle that American V8's are known for. V8's with a 180 degree idle like a 4 cylinder. The reason that F1 designers prefer the 180 degree crank design is because it allows more effective exhaust tuning, even though they vibrate more. The last F1 V8 that I know of that used a 90 degree crank was the Brabham-Repco engine back in 1966 and 1967.

The 2006 F1 rules require all V8's to have a 90 degree cylinder bank angle, but a 180 degree crank design.

If you do a search on "180 degree crank" on this site you'll find enough reading on the subject to keep you glued to the screen for quite some time.

[oldE]

180 degree, horizontally opposed engines (as opposed to engines with a '180 degree crank', are not the sole property of Porsche. The Testarossa from the late 80s -early 90s had a flat 12, Ferrari also has flat motors in their F1 cars in the 60s & 70s from time to time. Today, a flat motor is at a disadvantage because of the overriding demands of the aerodynamic package. Even if you don't have venturi tunnels (old F1, CART and LeMans prototypes), the current F1 designs attempt to pull the body work in as quick as they can behind the engine to give the air time to smooth out before passing over the rear wing. On the other hand, the low center of gravity and the mandated flat undertray might make this an area worth looking into, but F1 is trying to 'cut costs' so a 90 degree V8 it is, for now.
Les

[David]

I remember reading about Craig T. Nelson (Coach) using a Lexas engine in his prototype racecar a few (or was it several) years ago. They had a 180 degree crank made to replace the stock 90 degree crank in the V8. They weren't able to make as much power as the other engine brands but I thought it was cool that they tried it.

[Quicksilver]

The Ferrari 312 T4 was the last 'flat' motor in F1 and it is extremely doubtful that there will ever be another one. (Technically the 312 wasn't a boxer type engine but was instead a 180° V12.)

The reason that you won't see another flat motor is air management under the car. A flat motor puts the weight down close to the ground, which is good, but with the addition of the exhaust system it interferes with the space needed for the diffuser tunnels under the car. Aerodynamics is king in the F1 world so unless they make a rule requiring flat motors you won't be seeing them again.

BTW - The common consensus back then was that the 312 motor couldn't be used in a ground effects car. The designer managed to make it work which produced the wonderful 312-T4. Even though it walked away with a championship it wasn't a great solution, so as aero science marched forward it was abandoned for a better solution.

[jluetjen]

Trivia question. Who manufactured the last 8 cylinder F1 engine that used a 180 degree bank angle, but a 90 degree crank???

[jluetjen]

No one??? Will I need to have Wil Firch give it away for everyone???

[jluetjen]

771...

[jluetjen]