Opinions; Strip Carrera 3.2 Targa or sell for Earlier Coupe

[MOMO3.2]

I have owned my Carrera 3.2 Targa for 3 years now. It is mechanically strong and has been remarkably reliable as a daily driver. It has 160,XXX miles on it, but it still drives like it was machined out of solid metal. Damn, Porsche built the Carrera 3.2's strong.

These days, I split up the commuting trips between the Carrera and a new truck. Therefore, I can turn my fun car into a FUN car.

Qusetion:

I purchased Bilstein Sports for it and was planning on doing a total refresh and upgrade on the suspension. But, before I do anything that will really bastardise my car, should I sell it stock like it is now and throw in some more $$ to buy a lighter 69-76 RS clone Coupe (smog exempt in Ca). Or, can I realistically strip enough weight off my 87 Carrera Targa (a mechanically solid car) and get similar light weight performance from it?

I do LOVE the look of a wide Coupe. I also am aware of the extra weight up high in a Targa. But, really that is not that big a deal for my purposes. I have $3,000-5,000 to put into my Carrera or to ad to the sale price to purchase a clone.

Can I really lighten and tighten my Targa enough to put it in the range of a light weight clone? Should I sell and start over?

What would you do.

Mike

[aigel]

Mike:

I would say that you should keep the car and mod it, except that it is a Targa. Sounds like you may end up tracking / autocrossing it? Not that a Targa can't do it, but maybe it is time for a little change and getting an earlier coupe that you can go nuts on.

Before you buy a 76, make double sure that it is smog excempt. From the top of my head I thought it was the 75 and earlier only.

Cheers, George

[MOMO3.2]

Obligatory Photo

[MOMO3.2]

Thank you for the response George.

I hope to read even more responses from people who have owned/driven a light weight updated 3.2 Targa and can compare it to an earlier RS clone.

Mike

[jeff1hughes]

Well, I went from a 71 911S Targa to an 86 Carrera Targa, there is definitly a weight difference between the two, but even though, my seat of the pants meter (highly tuned for automotive testing) put the 86 ahead as far as acceleration and speed. Also a lot more reliable - there is something to be said for modern fuel/electrical engine management. I vote for keeping your car, change the bumpers out, RS the interior, set up the suspension and enjoy!

[techweenie]

Best of both worlds is a nice, reliable 200+ HP 3.2 in a lightweight early car with a 7:31 R&P.

:-)

[aigel]

I think if you do not worry about the Targa aspect and you are not planning to run competitive on the track, keep it. It is a high mile car and not worth a ton either. You would want an early car with a newer engine anyway. If you seriously rip all the interior, a/c, sound deadening etc. out, you can get to 2500 pounds easily. Pair that with hopping up the engine a bit (cams,chip,exhaust) and you should get close to 10pounds per horse. That will make it a fun car! Whatever mods you do, keep weight in mind. I.e. people laugh at me and my hollow torsion bars, but I am down to 2575 without even going to RS interior or touching the bumpers, stock battery and other items that didn't need replacement yet.

George

[aigel]

Oh, I just saw that it must be a G50 car? That's nice. But that also means it is worth a bunch more than I thought at first. You can get 22k or so for another car with your extra cash to spend. I think a long hood would be pretty crappy for that, if it is a nicely done RS clone. You will have to look at a smog exempt mid year, wich is fine too, of course.

Decisions decisions. I now lean to selling it and getting something else! Someone's money pit off the board!

George

[dd74]

I drove both cars: an '88 Targa and a '74 911. I bought the '74.

One reason is the '74 had it all over the Targa in handling and quickness, much of that attributed to the '74 being about 300# lighter and having a 7.31 ring and pinion.

The second reason I purchased the '74 is I truly wanted a more raw, near race-ready experience from a 911. That made the decision a no-brainer, really.

In the real world, however, the Targa is much more desireable because it is a Targa and it is newer.

If you're serious, I'd sell the Targa and purchase an earlier car. BTW, I'd double-check to see if our governor hasn't cancelled the 25-year exempt rule. As far as I know, '74 was the last year that a car was exempt from pollution controls.

But even if that's the case and you can't truly do engine/exhaust work on a model later than a '74 because of emission restrictions, I would not hesitate to purchase a '76 up to an SC. You can do a ton of mods to those cars to make them very fast w/o digging into the engine and exhaust.

[aigel]

I remembered right. From the DMV web page:

Does my vehicle qualify for a smog exemption?

Smog inspections are required unless your vehicle is:

* Hybrid
* 1975 year model or older
* Diesel powered
* Electric
* Natural gas powered and has a Gross Vehicle Weight rating of 14,001 lbs. or more.
* Motorcycle
* Trailer

....

George

[yelcab1]

It is 1975 and earlier.

[MOMO3.2]

Thank you for the info on Ca smog exempt yelcab1.

Hopefully, I can get more feedback on lightweight Targas compared to lightweight RS clone Coupes.

Anyone...anyone...Bueller...?

Damn, if there are not any lightweight SC or Carrera Targas out there, I may have to just keep my car and start a trend.

Mike

[jeff1hughes]

As I said, I like my 86 better, and the 71 911S was pretty lightweight, about 2350 lbs.

[aigel]

I don't really know what your question is at this point. If you have the same power and the same weight, it doesn't matter if it is an early coupe or a late targe. There is no reason, as I have said before, that your targa should be any heavier than an early coupe, if it is properly stripped off it's extra weight (luxury equipment and sound deadening).

There is plenty of people in my local club that run very respectable lap times in their 80s 911s. The times not any different than the early car times. Essentially the cars are not very different, if you compare them technically.

Sounds like you are tired of your car and want a change. GO FOR IT!

George

[randywebb]

it will be about 30 lbs. heavier if our attempts to calculate the wt. of Thyssen steel and the added strenthening of the chassis will add also

[randywebb]

it will be about 30 lbs. heavier if our attempts to calculate the wt. of Thyssen steel are right and the added strenthening of the chassis will add also

[dd74]

Heavier motor, too. Maybe heavier transmission.

[aigel]

Nono. When I say that they are the same weight, I compare them to a RS clone with steel body and a 3.0 or 3.2 drivetrain swapped in. Yes, certainly, if you think you will have a 2.7 or a 2.4, it is a bit heavier. But what you loose in the turns can easily be made up with by adding some more umph in the straightaways!

George

[BK911]

I have a 73.5 Coupe I may be willing to trade. It is in the process of becoming an ITS car for SCCA. Completely gutted, carrera brakes and suspension, etc.. Email me for pics and details. Where are you located?

[MOMO3.2]

Hey BK911:

I live in SoCal.

aigel: I guess my question at this point is (a) Is it possible to get an 87 3.2 Targa near the weight of an earlier Coupe without resorting to FG body panels? And (b) Is there going to be a significant difference in handling potential between an 87 Targa and an earlier Coupe with equivalent modifications?

These questions have pretty much been answered.

I greatly appreciate the responses I have gotten from jeff1hughes and other PM's on this subject. It would seem that my Targa has the same potential to be trimmed down and tightened up as just about any other early 911 out there.

I guess if Don Plummley is willing to gut his 993, I should have no problem doing the same with my G50 Carrera.

Mike