Difference between Karmann and regular 911?

[CHILI]

I've noticed in my Red Book that some vin's are 911E and S vs. 911E and S KARMANN

Can anybody explain the differences of a Karmann car?

[javadog]

At times, Porsche had more demand for the cars than they could fill, using bodies built solely by their own (old Reutter) body factory They contracted with Karmann to build some of the bodies, so they could increase production.

JR

[CHILI]

Ahh, thanks for the info, JR. That makes sense.

[DW SD]

Interesting......Is one better than the other? OR different in any obvious way?

Doug

[svandamme]

weren't the Karmann bodies actuall full cars, assembled by Karmann, with engines delivered prebuilt by Porsche to Karmann??

better then the other, some say the Karmann's are a bit less valuable
since they aren't the "real" Stuttgart product, although i wouldn't diss em personally , it's the same design, same engine assembled by Porsche

let's face it , any car over 30 years old... the things to worry about should be rust, history , mechanical parts and what the PO did to it , not the fact that it was not assembled by Porsche... any difference if any will have been long overshadowed by the effects of time...

[jluetjen]

I've got a Karmann bodied 911E. I've never heard of there being an iota of difference between Karmann bodied car and a Porsche bodied car. I believe that originally (going back to the 356 days) Porsche had bodes made at Reuter and Karmann. Reuter was eventually bought by Porsche while Karmann was not. Near as I can tell they're all made using the same grade steel and are virtually indistinguishable without looking at the ID plate.

[304065]

Karmann-bodied 911T with E motor and S parts here (race car).

There is no difference in the bodies whatsoever. This has been debated for years, and nobody has been able to post a single difference.

[javadog]

Stijn,

I think the Karmann cars were delivered to the Porsche factory as painted and trimmed body shells, ready for the installation of the drivetrain, suspension and final bits and pieces. Later, when Karmann built the 914s, the six cylinder cars were trimmed at Porsche.

Karmann built a lot of 356 bodies for Porsche, along with Reutter, Heuer and others. Up until Porsche bought the Reutter plant, they really just assembled cars from components supplied by outside firms. Ferry would have been quite happy to let other companies build the bodies of his cars. The purchase of the Reutter factory was only because Reutter didn't want to make the upgrades necessary to tool up for the 911 and put the factory up for sale. Ferry hated the idea that he had to spend millions to buy it and got nothing much in return, apart from a small tax savings. He wanted more production capacity. Acquiring the Reutter factory almost doubled the number of Porsche employees overnight and he could produce no more cars than before the purchase.

Karmann production began with bodies for the 912 in the 1966 model year and they began building the 911 the following year. Their production of these bodies continued up through 1971. Targas were built by Reutter, as were the 911S cars.

I know of no real differences between the two manufacturer's cars. Surely by now, condition would be vastly more important than who built the body. Maybe someone who has restored enough of the early cars has noticed some things peculiar to one or another.

JR