Submersed Engine Damage

[Gordo2]

I glance at engines on E-Bay frequently and noticed a 3.2 is up for sale that was submersed during Katrina.

What kind of damage can water do to an engine? Understand the electrical components would be toast; wondering about the hard components. I imagine it could pretty much wipe an engine out completely if you tried to start it with grime in the case.:

-Dirt in the case; on bearing surfaces leading to ruined journals, cylindar surfaces etc.

Wouldn't leave much other than non-friction bearing components (intake assembly, case etc). Then again, depending on the salinity I suppose these could be scrap as well.

I doubt this will be the last of them making their way around.

Thoughts?

Gordo

[911pcars]

It'd be interesting to see the components of the solution in Katrina engines, but not at your expense.

Let's see. Start with a base of salt water, then mix in a few weeks percolation time and ....... actually, that's probably enough to push corrosion into an advanced state. I wonder if there's any autopsy photos around the internet?

Sherwood

[Gordo2]

Curiosity bump in hopes that the night croud chimes in.

Gordo

[randywebb]

Gordo, it would be worth $50 to find out the results of the experiment. Sherwood describes it well, with the exception that he water is brackish, not (quite) as salty as the sea.

I can't think of any part that would for sure be good in the engine. It's possible...

[andrew15]

I've seen the interanls of a 911 engine dumped in brackish water for an undetermined amount of time - there wasn't a piece onit that I would have used.
The crank and other steel components were a bit rusty. The magnesium parts were the worst - deeply pockmarked/eroded - looked kind of like coral. Aluminum parts were slightly less corroded, but still showing ill effects of being submerged in a somewhat toxic water / sludge.

Regards,
Andrew M

[Zeke]

And I have disassembled 2 911 motors with rainwater in them. Except for P/C's and the valve stems, all looked pretty good. The oil kept the water from doing too much damage. This was rain water (pure), mind you. One of these motors is destined for a well known member's vintage racer. He didn't think it was too bad, I guess.

[andrew15]

I think thats the key - sitting rain water is probably the least damaging, while the slow moving brckish / polluted water I saw one from was probably the worst. I would suspect that Katrina cars would be on the worse side of the spectrum, but it would depend on how long they were submerged for.

AM

[stormmaster]

I work for a major insurance company...I handle castrophe claims....I spent several months working on Katrina claims....trust me when I say ANY car exposed to salt and or brakish (mixture of salt and/contaminated fresh water)...should be walked away from as quickly as possible...Not only are there corrosion issues to be addressed, there are likely extreme health hazards involved. Salt water will destroy internal parts....it may take a little longer due to oil protecting the parts for a short period of time...however the lubrication will not last long...I have seen parts exposed to salt water for as little as 30 minutes...and after sitting for a few days....it is hard to tell what some of the parts are...salt water and cars do not mix...

[Gordo2]

Here's the link in case anyone is interested in seeing how much a Katrina engine will fetch.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=8040579687&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

Description says the engine is locked up, can't be good...

Gordo

[joeblow]

I would think that after a teardown the block would be usable, the crank with a cut on the bearing surfaces would be fine, the rods with say shot peening would be good, the heads should be fine with a rebuild, injection would be trash item., pistons would likely be gone, cylanders would need a hone etc....

[randywebb]

Their ad says same day return if you don't like it.

But... when queried they say no to that.

[silverc4s]

They expect to get MORE than $3750 for it....

Run Forest, run.

[9dreizig]

These guys are on drugs.. Maybe they should sell it to MM..
T

[silverc4s]

Originally posted by 9dreizig
These guys are on drugs.. Maybe they should sell it to MM..
T

Don't give them ideas..

edit: actually, their pricing is way high for those guys, I'd say.

[RoninLB]

fwiw.. I've started a bunch of sunk engines. If it can't be immediately pickeled I'd leave in underwater and was always doable for about 3 days. If after 3 days and it became impossible to turn the crank they got dumped. Boatyards are fun.

[Terrh]

the auction says $550 and reserve met? Doesn't sound like alot to me.

[pa911]

There was a flooded 3.0 today that didn't hit reserve it bid up to $2550

[silverc4s]

Fom the E bay Q&A:

Q: What would you want for the 3.2 core motor now? Thank you.
Feb-22-06

A: We think it will bring around 3750 if the auction goes to end, we have two good offers on it before we listed it, we reserve and very well end auction early.

[carmad]

I have experience with 930 engine and transmission that was completely submerged in a lake, so it was freshwater not salt water. In fact, the whole car, except the rear spoiler was underwater.
It was slowly rebuilt over a peiod of 3 years, interior paint electricals, but the engine and transmission were not touched for about a year, except for draining the water out as best they could, changing oil and tranny fluid.

The car ran for about 6,000 miles, including DE events, with no electrical issues.Then one day horrible noises, which turned out to be a rod bearing.
The engine was completely stripped down, and found silt blocking the oil passage to the #3 bearing. All the other bearing surfaces were in OK condition with some barely visible scoring. The rest of the engine was in very good condition, pistons, rods (except #3), crank had slight scoring but was fixable. The cylinders were in excellent condition with the honing still visible even after 70,000 miles. The heads showed no adverse effects and were in good condition, as were the cams. The only real corrosion was on the head studs and some other fasteners. The engine case was fine.
The CIS was completely rebuilt.
The transmission showed more signs of corrosion than the engine
with the selector rod in the case very badly pitted, and other steel parts had rust on them. The gears were in excellent shape as was the case and LSD. A transmission oil analysis showed 2% water still in it after 6000 miles of driving.
This engine has been completely rebuilt with many modifications and has dynoed 365 bhp and 400 ft/lbs at the wheels on pump gas. It has about 8,000 miles on it and at least 6 DE days.

So unless you want a very expensive project or can do the work yourself, which will still be expensive, you should pass.

[randywebb]

This is the same Seller who listed a single lug nut for sale (see the other thread) with a picture of the entire car. Bidders shold be more careful, but reading the entire description of both items raises some warning flags re the Seller.