Question about a'72 911T Project
 

Hey guys, I am new on here and I am currently looking for a 911 Targa, I have come across a '72 911T that is in the middle of a complete restoration, the car has been stripped, media blasted, and any rust areas repaired, (new front suspension pan, and drivers side door jam area.) The engine has been rebuilt and currently has 9,000 miles on it and was upgraded to "911S" engine specs. It also has had all new bushings and suspension items redone on the car as well. And there is an additional 5,000 in new parts for the car including new seals for the whole car, and a new rear chrome bumper. I am going this weekend to verify everything and more than likely I will be bringing it home with me. The asking price is 5,000 for the car, the main question that I have is, would this car have more value being put back to a stock body, or modifying it to wide body turbo look with the steel fender flares and changing the color to black (original color is red)? Oh yeah, it has only had 3 owners since new. I will greatly appreciate the input. Thanks, Tim

First, welcome!

Next, (going out on a limb here), you are aware that 911T does not necessarily mean Targa, right? I've had many people assume that, since I own a "T," it's a targa. Not true.

Finally, do a search on early car prices. I'm doubting that the car would be worth more with a widebody conversion. I'd say leave it the way it is. Also, I don't understand the rear chrome bumper thing. Maybe it has new chrome bumper guards?

If the car really has a rebuilt "S" spec engine, and the rust has been repaired, the price doesn't sound too bad. Be prepared to put another $3-5K in paint, and another few grand in the "misc" column.

Still, it sounds like a project.

You've come to the right place.

Jim

Jim,

Thanks for the reply, yes your right it's bumper guards not bumper that's my mistake and I'm aware of the T not meaning Targa, but thanks for checking, I had already spoke to the current owner.

As for paint & upholstery I do my own (I use Dupont ChromaBase.) The guy also has all of the old engine parts, cylinders, pistons, etc. The car also has a new drivers outside rocker. It was a driver when disassembled by the current owner, and supposedly he has labeled and bagged all parts as it was disassembled, but I do expect to put at least another couple thousand or so into the car to ensure it's right, but from the way he talked he has already bought everything necessary for assembly so we'll see about this.

I just don't want to sink 8-10K in something that wouldn't be worth it, but I know it has been done correctly thus far and would be finished that way.

Tim

It sounds like a lot of solid work has already been put into the car. In addition I've never seen a modified body (i.e. turbo flares, slant nose, etc) increase the value of a '72.

Early 911's are desireable in stock form. Spend that extra money on making it look like it rolled off the assembly line and you will never be dissapointed.

I want to chime in on this, too. Generally, a widebody conversion needs not only sheetmetal, but special wheels or spacers. It will never return the full cost, and will generally reduce the marketability of the car when you eventually sell it.

i'd schedule out the cost to finish and see where you end up. sounds neat though.

one question though, was the crank replaced with one from an E or S? been reading a lot on rebuilding 911 engines and i know the T crank isn't counterweighted. S cams are high rpm performers and T cranks are not (paraphrasing a lot of stuff there).

Erik

Do this restoration for love, not for resale value. Because in the end when you sell, you will lose money. That's a guarantee. And if your total budget for the project is $10,000, you should seriously consider another type of Porsche -- a 944 or 914. There's this old saying about 911's... They're all $20,000 cars. You might not start there but you'll end up there one way or another.

(Then there are some us who have at least $20,000 invested and we smile every mile.) SmileWavy

The 72 2.4 T crank is the same as the other two engines (E&S). Earlier T engines it was not. HTH. As a 72T owner, I would recommend you just build the components up without changing the body lines. Is the motor still MFI? Make sure you get the old T MFI system if it is still around. Get ready for a slippery slope, throwing money all the while. But it is fun. Make sure the tinworm is under control.

so 2.4 cranks are all the same but T's are different on 2.2 and 2.0?

(sorry about the mini hijack)

Erik

is the price $5K for the car, plus $5K for the parts. or is everything "out the door" $5K?

i have the same car. the body was finished/painted (not original) and had new interior (not original). engine was machined, but i assembled. over the last six years, it will be $20K project. no two ways about it...

zotman is correct about the cranks, and actually, all 2.4 and 2.7 are the same...

Yeah, I'm posting a gratuitous pic here...but with a purpose...
maybe somebody else could post a slant nose conversion pic? Let the guy compare...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1141426200.jpg

Definitely keep it stock. Since you are painting it yourself, and a lot of work has been done on it already, I would not guarantee you will lose money on it. But don't plan on an early retirement, either. If you widebody it, then you will lose money, and that is a guarantee.

Well, I guess I have a bit more checking to do on this car, I am waiting a call back from the current owner so I can go look at it. kucharskimb, it is 5,000 for the car including all the of new parts that he has bought, That's a big savings for me :) and a big, big loss for him :( I'm not sure about the fuel injection but I will definitely find out. I've seen the slant nose conversions there is a '68 model on ebay right now for a few thousand ( http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4617066011&rd=1&sspage name=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 ) By the way that's a beautiful pic above, is that yours pwd72's? Oh yeah the next question would be should I put it back to the orinial color - red or would it hurt the value to much to change it to say black? That's probably a bit early for this question.

Tim

It sounds like the car will get a total respray, so now is the time to change teh color if ever. Stay period, (black works) and I imagine you will be fine. If the car is 100% original, then the original color is important. But it sounds like there are a few changes.

Leave the body as is, or go RS if you need the room for rubber, but it will add the cost of wheels, etc to the total.

And for $5K, the engine alone is nearly worth that!

Keep it narrow

aaaaahhhhhhhh.........got my porsche porn fix for the morning!

Well, I went to look at the car yesterday, it wasn't completely what I imagined (as usual) but the engine has definitely been rebuilt, it also has the turbo valve covers, the disappointment was that the entire body was not media blasted, only the quarters and passenger door, and the rust areas were not completely cut out, more will have to be cut to make it right, and the drivers door showed a slight bit of sag, it could be due to previous patch panel (the qtr area that meets the door) not correctly done when it was put in (it was placed over top of the old one) because the frame is solid as well as the floor pans, and the front suspension pan had been replaced previously. It also had dealer a/c but he removed it and through it away as he was planning on making a track car. The car still needs the front pedal area, drivers outer rocker replaced and drivers qtr area the meets the door jamb. The driver outer rocker isn't bad, but he has a brand new inner and outer rockers for both sides, so I might just replace them all if I get it. What I did like was that all of the fuel lines were replaced, fuel tank has been lined, seats were original recaro's, rebuilt engine with turbo valve covers and upgraded to "S" engine specs, (but no documentation he didn't get it from previous owner but he did have all of the old cylinders, pistons, heads and valve covers) I made him an offer of 4500.00 he is suppose to let me know this evening. Oh yeah, it also has all new bushings and shocks, original Targa wheels with tires and a set (4) of Fuchs' rims. Targa top was in pretty good shape, the only part I noticed was the headliner had a small place in it, no biggie though. I took my camera but I forgot to get pics, sorry guys. Well, I am now waiting for his reply and waiting, and waiting........

Ohio911guy,

IMHO, stock is the only way to go with an early car:D

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1141835627.jpg

FWIW, I paid $9000 for my'72T last summer(right place, right time:eek: ) and just had it appraised for insurance at $20,000! Completely original(with respray in original color), 110k miles. Slant nose conversion would cost a ton and probably knock at least 5-7k off the value, even if well-done.

doing a slant nose conversion on a longhood car? Might as well get that 'turbo look' 68 912 someone else on here was all hot for.

keep it narrow, keep it stockish.

People who buy '72T's don't do it for the huge horsepower and big tires. They buy it because the cars are a time-warp machine, a throwback to the end of the golden era of sports cars.

Accordingly, to slant-nose it and widebody it would be to destroy most of its value. I also believe, but I'm a purist, that if you have the opportunity to paint it the original color, you should absolutely do that, and even shoot original Glasurit. Then again I bought my '66 which had been repainted black knowing that the original color was Irish Green, and I wanted Irish Green.

A correct early T that looks perfectly stock but with the power of an "S" motor would be a joy to behold, and is the combination many dream about-- lower priced chassis with the fun of the S motor. I say do it.