Getting an 88 Carrera ready for DE

[Chulo]

Hi all - I'm a NooB to the forums. My wife just gave me a surprise 10 year anniversary present - an 88 Carrera, my first P-car! She's a keeper, BTW (wife). What a gift... I had been searching for one, and underneath my nose, she spoke with the prospects I had found, and had one delivered to me. Unreal.

Anyway, I have been involved with DE for 5+ years in the BMW CCA, and as a result, know BMWs. P-cars, on the other hand are new to me. My car is an excellent condition 88 coupe with 70k miles on it. It needs a clutch, which I will be replacing very soon. Other than that, it is stock. My quesiton is: how can I make this more trackable, without turning it into a car that is obnoxious on the street. I intend on doing 5-6 track days/season, and storing the car in the winter. My early thoughts are: harness bar/belts/seats, strut tower brace, stiffer shocks.

Thoughts? Thanks in advance.

Ben

[Jack Olsen]

If you don't need the rear seats, get a roll bar, which will help some with chassis stiffness and make the car safer in a rollover. Harnesses and a seat will help a lot. Aside from that, check the alignment settings, the condition of the shocks and bushings, and make sure you've got fresh brake fluid and good pads.

I'd hold off for a while on stiffening up the suspension. But when you do it, do shocks and torsion bars in tandem.

You're going to love the Carrera on the track.

[Chulo]

Originally posted by Jack Olsen
If you don't need the rear seats, get a roll bar, which will help some with chassis stiffness and make the car safer in a rollover. Harnesses and a seat will help a lot. Aside from that, check the alignment settings, the condition of the shocks and bushings, and make sure you've got fresh brake fluid and good pads.

I'd hold off for a while on stiffening up the suspension. But when you do it, do shocks and torsion bars in tandem.

You're going to love the Carrera on the track.

Not going to use the rear seats. Suggestions for a roll bar? I assume a bolt in with a cross bar?

First track date is in May - can't wait...

[goat]

For a roll bar I know there are a lot of makers. Autopower manufacteres a few types.
I know I am on the other side of the coast but I have had a good dealings with io Port.
web site http://www.ioportracing.com/index.html
Pelican might be able to get cages too.

[Dueller]

After years of racing in SCCA and going through the whole tow the race only car all over the world, I ran my first DE last year in an 87 carrera. I changed to SS brake lines ($70), new pads ($150), flushed the brake lines ($15), checked the alignment to factory recommended street specs and changed the oil. Car was fine otherwise mechanically so I took off for two days of fun.

My plans were to go easy on it since this was afterall a 17 y.o. street car that I was having to drive 250 miles home after the event. In reality, the car begged to be driven harder and harder. I leaned on this thing with eveything I had...it never even hiccupped. No overheating, no brake fade. Nothing. NADA. Ran lap times lower than many of my race cars.

My stock seats and belts were OK but I reached the point where cornering speeds had me bracing myself against the door (right turns) and hangin onto the steering wheel too tight on left turns. My left shoulder was literally bruised. 5 or 6 pt harness would have made it more enjoyable. I considered installing a harness bar but after reading some input against them here, I've reconsidiered.

After the event I made the trek home in AC comfort with no problems. Compared to having to load up and trailer a race car home (imagine mounting a small military campaign that lasts 2 days), I can see the attraction to DE's.

[Netspeed]

Let me the first one to give props to your wife! That was awesome! You are indeed a lucky man.

[johncarlos2003]

Hate to throw off the rythm but ah . . . pics of the new beast? maybe one of the angel wife too- congrats!

[Jon Merck]

Congradulations and welcome to the board, you have found the right place to ask about your P-car. Tremedous wealth of info here plus a great group of people.

With your DE experience, and to really understand what your car is doing you need to be planted, invest in harnesses. You will be able to feel more of what the car is doing instead of trying to hold on...these car's have great ability in their stock form.

Have fun and enjoy!

[Dixie]

how can I make this more trackable, without turning it into a car that is obnoxious on the street.

Same stuff applies. Alignment, shocks, springs (torsion bars), brakes....

I track a basically stock '88 Carrrera. I find the car to be very robust. You'll like it.

[porschenut]

I say forget the roll bar. This is a street car that you'll enjoy on the track only 5-6 days per year, so keep it street. I do think the seats/harnesses will be a good idea however.

For performance, leave everything stock but get an "aggressive street" alignment (don't go overboard), and then get it corner balanced. It will handle like a dream both on the street and the track. And get an extra set of performance brake pads that you can swap in just for the track days.

Drive on street tires for the first few track days. You'll learn a lot. When you gotta go faster, buy a set of Kumho Victoracer V700's or Toyo RA-1's on a dedicated set of track wheels.

Man, are you gonna have FUN! Welcome to the fold.

[JeremyD]

Good P-car crowd in chi town - chris, KTL and Souk just off the top of my head - Hook up with some of those folks -

as far as the car goes - do a DE stock - then decide from their - I'd start with harnesses and maybe a DAS bolt in/out roll bar. From there wider tires/wheels. I have 8 and 9 x 16 fuchs and 8 x 9 x 16 BBS wheels for track (with Toyo RA1s) Oh and I can recommend a steve wong ship - can bypass or euro premuffler and a sport muffler - maybe a diferent wheel 930s or Momo.

A Carrera at the track can be ALOT of fun. Much different than a BMW -

[JeremyD]

oh and we need a picture of car with wife before you get any more advice - that's the way it works here.

[Nader]

Congratulations on the car, hands down the best stock air-cooled Porsche for combined track and street duty.

You'll need to check your rear swaybar mounts, many of them crack on Carreras.

Also, my initial stock setup suffered brake fade after repeated laps. I replaced pads with Pagid Orange, switched to racing brake fluid, and had brake cooling ducts installed. That fixed the problem.

Enjoy!

[Jim Smolka]

Congrats... and welcome to the board.

For DE's, new brake fluid such as the ATE Blue (sold by our host) is a great idea. A quality set of pads helps too. Also, a good idea to inspect the front suspension system and repack bearings (new inner seals needed). To keep the front brakes cool, a brake duct kit is a great upgrade (see tech article).

As far as upgrades, one of the best ideas is an extra set of rims with DOT-R type tires.

Now, where are those pictures of the car???

[Chulo]

Originally posted by Jim Smolka
Congrats... and welcome to the board.

For DE's, new brake fluid such as the ATE Blue (sold by our host) is a great idea. A quality set of pads helps too. Also, a good idea to inspect the front suspension system and repack bearings (new inner seals needed). To keep the front brakes cool, a brake duct kit is a great upgrade (see tech article).

As far as upgrades, one of the best ideas is an extra set of rims with DOT-R type tires.

Now, where are those pictures of the car???

I am in Texas until tomorrow (had to leave the day after I got the car). I will upload some pics on Saturday, and hopefully have a chance to drive it.

Ben

[Alan Goettel]

Anyone who drives with seats and harnesses without a roll bar is insane. Think about what would happen to your neck in a rollover! Change the brake fluid, slap on some track pads and flog that mofo!

[SLO-BOB]

Firstly-Gotta say-You've got a great wife! Lots of flowers.

Lots of great advice here. I am fairly new to DEs too. I guarantee you, even if you do nothing to the car you'll have a blast.

My advice-drive the car first. Make decisions from there. Changing out the brake fluid would be the one thing I would do for sure. A nice set of street/track pads would be a good idea but not necessary for your first time. I can say from experience that as good as harnesses are on the track, they are bad on the street. If you go the harness route make sure you retain your factory seat belts. I also agree with the harness + roll bar = safety sentiment. I have no experience with a racing seat, but plan on installing Recaro Pole positions in my car so my guess is they're a nice, streetable, upgrade.

Is this first DE going to be at Blackhawk? If so, I'll see you there.

[Chulo]

Originally posted by Chulo
I am in Texas until tomorrow (had to leave the day after I got the car). I will upload some pics on Saturday, and hopefully have a chance to drive it.

Ben

Here she is...

[KTL]

Hmmmmmmmm.

That's a 911 I recognize............



Mine's a '87 with 74K on it and ji'm ust finishing up making it more track-able with a 993 brake kit and some Kumho Victoracers.

I'd say leave the car stock for a little while until you feel it out. Obviously you've got some experience with the BMW CCA DE's, so you're not new to the track. Nonetheless, it's not a bad idea to leave the car stock and just make sure everything's in order for track duty- especially since the car's new to you. These cars are pretty fast & worthy of track use right out of the box. A guy we run with has a '87 that's completely stock except for pads and Yoko A032 R tires. He's fast. Faster than some folks in MUCH faster cars like 996, 993, 964, even some guys in silly fast cars like GT3's. Obviously the talent of the other drivers is a factor here too.

Obviously the most important thing to be sure of is the brakes. Make sure they're in top condition before hitting the track. Check for leaks and torn dust boots, exercise the pistons to ensure all operate smoothly, fresh ATE typ 200 fluid, and most importantly get capable pads.

Alot of the guys in our local group like the Performance Friction PF97 pads for track duty. They perform great, just a little expensive. A good compromise seems to be the Porterfield R4 pads, or any other manufacturer's version of the carbon-kevlar pad (Kool Carbon, Carbotech......) Hawk pads have a good following too.. I tried Ferodo DS2500 pads on my car and managed to cook the pads and rotors pretty good a number of times. Others have had success with these, but apparently my car is a bit too heavy for them. So appropriate pads are high on my list nowadays.

We're having a Test 'n Tune at Gingerman on April 28, 29, 30. You're welcome to join us- we need attendees! Seems like a perfect opportunity to give the car a shakedown? Check out the details at

http://www.gruppeb.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2076

I can look the car over with you if you'd like. I'm down in the south suburbs @ Tinley Park

[PorscheGuy79]

There are some of us getting together for dinner on the 15th if you are up for talking to some track junkies about whats good or not.

Chicago owners "Out of Hibernation" Meet & Greet dinner