Help!! Left rag in engine compartment!

[Kirk Lundmark]

The car was run without the fan belt. I do not know how long it was driven in that condition.

I did break the cardinal rule of deciding to drive it to a different location after discovering the problem. If I had turned it off and left it I more than likely would not be dealing with this problem. Albeit, I would have sustained some amount of unknown damage.

Lesson learned.

[Grady Clay]

I agree with John. This probably is the next step AFTER some measuring that turns out OK. I’m too Scotch to risk an increased disaster when some simple measurements allow me to make informed decisions.

My communication philosophy is to give realistic appraisals and not focus on the easy possibilities or the most dire. Everyone is happy if some situation turns out better than expected. I could write page on the grim possibilities but that doesn’t do any good without factual analysis.

Look at it as an opportunity to gather normal maintenance data – something you should do regularly anyway.

Best,
Grady

[Kirk Lundmark]

I will continue with the original plan. Clean out rag remnants, do a leak down test and run it to see if it clears up and hope for the best.

Kirk

[CliffBrown]

Kirk

Regarding your decision to take the car to a Porsche Dealer for analysis.

I don't know if you have any independent Porsche reapir shops in your area but you might find the expertise (knowledge of early cars) to be better suited at a small shop rather than a Porsche Dealer.

Check your local PCA or ask for referrals on this board.

[randywebb]

if I pieced together the rag remants and made an almost whole rag out of them, then I'd just say a thank you, and drive off

[Kirk Lundmark]

I do have a local shop who knows the car. I have been dealing with him for 10+ years. He's good and has a reputation of only doing what is necessary. The shop is Smith Import in Hopkins, MN. Any feedback from Minnesota Pelicans?

Regarding the rag. When I pulled my plugs last night I saw fuzzy remnants of the rag on the threads as they were removed. I think the compartment is full of shredded cotton.

Kirk

[PorscheFan1]

Hi Kirk,
Jeff here, neighbor to Anthony and Craig. I have heard alot about AutoEdge, in the White Bear Lake area. I think the guys name is Bob Viau, sounds like View. When some of my Motorcycle dealers found out I bought the Porsche, they all suggested this guy. I guess he does alot of Porsche race prep.

[Kmatts]

Aaron from FlatSix is in MN. He's a friend of friend (who both post here). look them up & contact him.
hope all this works out.
Kyle.

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by randywebb
if I pieced together the rag remants and made an almost whole rag out of them, then I'd just say a thank you, and drive off

it's the heat from running without the fan that has either toasted it or not, i think. Anyway this event reinforces spending $50 for a CHT ga.

[Kirk Lundmark]

Jeff,

My insurance adjuster wants to have the engine evaluated so I am holding off doing anything until I can have that done. It goes to the shop today and I should have an estimate next Friday. I will be in the office most of the day give me a call: 763-421-1619

Ronin LB, what is a CHT ga and how would I have benefitted from this?

Thanks,
Kirk

[javadog]

Kirk,

He's talking about a cylinder head temperature gauge. Not many people have these installed on their 911. It would give you a quicker indication that the temperatures were climbing after the fan belt broke, than relying on the oil temperature gauge.

When the fan belt broke, it should have turned on the alternator light. If this light didn't come on, I'd be surprised. Any time this light comes on, you pull off the road and kill the engine ASAP and check the fan belt. It's a good idea to check the operation of all of the indicator lights in the gauges prior to starting the car and then scan the gauges a couple times a minute while driving. It becomes second nature after a while.

JR

[Kirk Lundmark]

JavaDog,

I have never checked the dash lights to make sure they all worked. Good point and it is surely something I will do after I get the car fixed.

I regularly check the dash for temp etc. However, I do not recall seeing the alternator light come on. I was in some bad traffic so I may not have looked at the dash as much as I should have. Especially since it was the first drive from storage.

It's obvious to me now, but the oil temp read fine the whole time as the heads were cooking.

Another expensive learning experience.

Thanks,
Kirk

[john walker's workshop]

15 minutes of driving without the fan in minnesota in april, probably doesn't get as hot as normal driving in 110° phoenix in the summer WITH a belt.

[Gunter]

This issue seems to come up periodically and the importance of aircooling is not fully understood by some 911-owners.
The oil temp and level will look normal while the cylinders/heads/rings get fried when the fan stops running.
I believe that, aside from the red alternator warning light, the OX light on the '80-'83, comes on as well when the alternator/fan stops running.
Kirk, are these lights not working on your '82?
I didn't know that an insurance co. will pay for engine damage due to mechanical breakdown by forgetting to put oil in the engine or the fan belt breaking.
Certainly not in Canada. Is this true in the US?

[pbflyz]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by KCinBR
[B]When I read rag in fan belt it brought back bad memories.


Me too. Twelve years ago while living in Seattle, I accidently left a rag back there after washing the car. Early the next morning as I was heading for my reserve job up on Whidbey Island, the red alternator light illuminated....followed by a steady increase in temp. Crap. I pull over, and discover that the rag got wrapped around the fan and pulled the belt off. I manage to get the belt back on with the help of the factory toolkit, but not before dropping the washers down the shroud and then fishing them out with a twig that I found nearby. Twenty minutes later, cold and greasy, I'm back on the road.
Now I'm trying to make up time, and get zapped by instant-on while zooming through an empty state park. Instant $165.00 ticket and I arrive at my destination 45 mins late. Car door got dinged in the parking lot that day, too...

[Kirk Lundmark]

You learn something new everyday. My oxy light came on last fall and I had a new oxy sensor in the back seat for install this spring. That explains why I did not notice the alternator light coming on.

In refernce to the issue being covered by my insurance company. I had to call my agent Saturday night to let him know I would need additional coverage for Sunday as it was only temp coverage for transport from storage to my house.

He asked what happened and I explained that I had left the rag in the engine compartment etc. He was the one who suggested that it may be covered and he would check with the adjuster. It was just dumb luck that this was covered. With heavy emphasis on dumb.

This engine has 185,000 miles but had a complete top end re-build 25,000 miles ago with all updates. It ran like a top.

Kirk

"Just another stupid boy"
The Gear Daddies

[Kirk Lundmark]

I had the shop do a cylinder pressure test and that came out fine. They followed with a leak-down test and that came up very good. I do not have the numbers yet, but the tech was very impressed with the specs.

They have told me they want to put new plugs in it and start it. When I ran it just after the incident it blew blue smoke like crazy from the tailpipe.

With this new information what could be the possible conclusion? Is it possible to get the heads hot enough to damage the valve guides without damaging the cylinders and pistons?

Any thoughts?

Thanks again.

Kirk

[Por_sha911]

Originally posted by Kirk Lundmark
Is it possible to get the heads hot enough to damage the valve guides without damaging the cylinders and pistons?

Yes you can damage a head without killing the P&C but bad guides (or a cracked head) usually show up in the leak-down.
If the shop wants to start it up. I say go for it (assuming this is a place that KNOWS air-cooled engines).

[Grady Clay]

Kirk,

WOW, good news.

Not out of the woods yet. All that blue smoke had to come from somewhere. There are two choices; too much oil in the sump tank and the excess getting in the engine or oil coming past the rings or past the (intake) valve guides.

Has your tech checked to see if there is oil in the intake plenum?

Once oil is in the exhaust system it takes a long time to burn it out. If the catalytic converter oil soaked it won’t come up to temperature and burn the oil. The good news is that once warmed up the smoke disappears. The bad news is the catalytic converter may be working burning the oil.

Who has experience cleaning oil from a catalytic converter?

The fact that it has acceptable compression and cylinder leak numbers are good signs.

While there is some risk, I would drain the oil and install fresh, inspect the filter and sump and carefully drive it. Get it up to temperature with some extended driving. A sparkplug check will give you an indication. More accurate will be a CO and HC test from the exhaust sampling port ahead of the cat.

Remember, you still need to find the rest of the rag.

Carefully inspect the fan pulley run-out. The pulley can get bent when the rag threw the fan belt. You don’t want to loose another belt.

Best,
Grady

[Kirk Lundmark]

The shop, Porsche Carousel+Audi, put in fresh plugs, changed the oil and just stared it up. I seems as though there may have been oil in the sump that caused the smoking. They are putting in a new oxy sensor and doing another adjustment relating to a new oxy sensor as well as replacing a plug wire that got damaged. He said everything looks good but might also need some new shims as they were damaged. Probably when I put the replacement belt on. They also suggested a valve adjustment.

They expect to have to work done tomorrow. I will take apart the fan and make sure all of the rag is removed.

I am going to take it easy for a few thousand miles to watch for any tell tale signs of damage.

I got off lucky!!

Grady, thank you so much for your insight and level headed assesments.

This forum is great.

Thanks,
Kirk