Did a 2.4S come with an oil cooler?

[dkm_chgo]

Did the '72 and '73 911S have oil coolers from the factory? If yes, is an oil cooler necessary; if most of the driving will be on the street?

What are the differences between the 2.2S cases and the 2.4S cases?

Thanks.

[Bill Verburg]

Yes, '73 started w/ a radiator type, '73 ended w/ a trombone type, the transition was supposed to be at the model year transition but there were exceptions on either side of the official transition date.

yes, it is necessary

[Spud]

hate to disagree, but I had an original 73S that did not have an oil cooler of any kind on it. I've heard of others out there as well.

Typical of Porsche in the early days, nearly every car was unique.

[Grady Clay]

Bill,

I didn’t realize any ‘73s came with the ’72 radiator oil cooler unless fitted in the Factory race shop or here in the States. Is there documentation or is this anecdotal?

Every 911 would benefit from a front, thermostatically controlled, oil cooler. Depending on use, even 2.0s may find it necessary. By 2.4 probably all will benefit significantly. By 2.7 a front cooler (and fan) is absolutely necessary in most circumstances. Had Porsche installed front coolers and the 11-blade, 245 mm 1.82:1 fans on every 2.7, we wouldn’t find them as “damaged goods” so often.

Here is Randy Webb’s thread about ’73 plumbing.
"Oil Line Brackets in front Fender"


dkm, yes every 2.4 911S came with a front cooler. Additionally so did all the 911s equipped with Sportomatic (they also had S brakes). The front cooler was also available as a special order option (it had an option number) but most dealers didn’t know that.

The two significant differences between ’72 and ’73 are the ’72 had a full-fin radiator style cooler and the ’73 had a simple pipe loop (trombone). The other difference is the ‘72 had a safety pressure relief in the front cooler system (in the oil filter console) and the ’73 was the only year that didn’t.


Your question about case types is more complicated. I think ’73 is the first year for the 7R case. It is noticeably reinforced compared to the 5R (I have never seen a 6R designation that I recall). In the transition, there are engines with one half 5R and the other 7R.

The award winning magnesium cases start in ’68. As the engines developed and became larger displacement the design of the castings progressed. The .xR at the end of the casting number reflects that progression. There are also machining differences that aren’t reflected in the different casting revisions.

The latest versions are the most desirable but more important is the condition. The magnesium case engines were not very tolerant of low RPM “lugging” allowed by CIS or the overheating caused by lack of front cooler and some unfortunate decisions on fans. USA and particularly California emissions exhaust systems took a heavy toil.

The 2.2 cases are obviously an earlier version but are directly interchangeable with a few mods. Those mods are the clearance for the piston skirt at BDC to clear the case with the 70.4 mm (2.4) crankshaft. No mods are necessary for using a 2.4 case in a 2.0 or 2.2 application. A significant change happened during the 2.2 production – Porsche introduced the piston squirters in (sorta) ’71.

There never was a difference between T, E and S in the cases other than S/N.

Best,
Grady

[Bill Verburg]

Originally posted by Spud
hate to disagree, but I had an original 73S that did not have an oil cooler of any kind on it. I've heard of others out there as well.

Typical of Porsche in the early days, nearly every car was unique.

My '72S certainly had a radiator oil cooler, I have one reference to the '73 cooler deletion in 'Porsche Sport 72' by Ruiz and one to it's presence in Pano. the parts books merely show that one was offered not whether it was stock or optional. The '73 RS certainly used a trombone

[Neilk]

Originally posted by Grady Clay


dkm, yes every 2.4 911S came with a front cooler. Additionally so did all the 911s equipped with Sportomatic

Well perhaps EVERY 1972 2.4 911S came with a front oil cooler, or perhaps every coupe, but I know of several '73S targas without them, mine included.

[pwd72s]

Grady...FINALLY I can disagree with you. '72 was the last model year that a radiator cooler was installed on the 2.4 911S as standard equipment...the same cooler was optional on E's and T's. In '73, the cooler turned into trombone style, as an OPTION on all three models! Wise dealers ordered the optional trombone on their floor stock "S" models, so most 1973 "S" cars delivered had the trombone cooler...but it was not standard equipment. Fred Flegel's '73 was special ordered, but he assumed the cooler was standard...he didn't like it when the car arrived without one.
Many of the "cool climate" dealers, like in Oregon, didn't order '73 "S" cars with the cooler. Here's a pic I took of Fred's car back in 1975... Note the vanity plate.

[Grady Clay]

Neil,

Perhaps was there a delete option that some dealers exercised? I suspect some northern climes it may have been appropriate (Alaska, north of the Artic circle in Norway, etc.) It would be useful to document this.

I agree that Porsche would (and still will) deliver what the customer wants. Today it is much more difficult for them if a 911 is going to a regulated market (like USA or EU). If you want an outrageous spec 911, have a UAE address and really deep pockets. There are easier ways.

Bill, Rusz says (Porsche Sport ’72, p. 41) “Actually we can find only one modification directly related to the S, and that is the deletion of the front oil cooler.”

My experience is that all ’73 911S that I saw had the trombone cooler installed. This is a subject for useful research. I suspect this was a required USA option that some (lame) dealers deleted to have a $100 lower cost 911S.

There was a significant change in Porsche philosophy ’70 to ’73. Part was due to the impending regulations but other was due to in ’71 there were many 911s sitting in the port of Long Beach not sold to dealers – at Porsche’s expense. Porsche did whatever it could to help (entice) the dealers to buy and stock the cars. Was selling a 911S without a front cooler the right thing to do? Yes, if Porsche got more sales. Of course we (30+years later) know better.

Best,
Grady

[Grady Clay]

Paul,

I yield to your superior knowledge.

This is fun stuff to resurrect these details. More important it is useful for the next generation to understand the what and why. What is the saying: “Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat the failures.” Something PAG should pay attention to.

Perhaps if we get ten of us together we could have one brain.

Say Hi to Cindy for me.

Beat,
Grady

[Early_S_Man]

Grady,

My '73S Targa didn't come with a front cooler, even though it had the factory Behr A/C! I have spoken to several '73S Targa owners ... and have yet to find a USA model that came with the factory front cooler.

[pwd72s]

Originally posted by Grady Clay
Paul,

I yield to your superior knowledge.

This is fun stuff to resurrect these details. More important it is useful for the next generation to understand the what and why. What is the saying: “Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat the failures.” Something PAG should pay attention to.

Perhaps if we get ten of us together we could have one brain.

Say Hi to Cindy for me.

Beat,
Grady

HOOT! "Superior knowledge" Yeah...right. Grady, I know "for sure" only this one cooler thing...while you know so much about so many models. How do I remember this so well? I remember Fred's complaint..heard it over and over and OVER that the dealer should have told him that the cooler was an option. I heard the complaint mostly during the summer months during track days. I wonder why that would be???

[Grady Clay]

Warren,

Perhaps it is the altitude or other but every 911S here had the cooler. As an option (finally) it was on many Ts and Es. I probably only sold 15% but the other 85% I think I influenced the ordering and purchasing to a large degree.

In ’74-> many 911 got the front cooler.
In ’75-> every 911 got the turbo fan retrofit.

The Colorado 911s were the best in the world. This is why Factory engineers (Kurt Meyer and others) came to Rennenhaus to see what we were doing.

I wish I had influence on the 911s delivered in Texas. You would have had a front cooler.

Best,
Grady

[Soterik]

My 73S Targa came without a cooler, though I will be installing one soon.

regards,
Eric

[Grady Clay]

Paul,

You are correct, Fred Flegel's Porsche dealer should have been more on the ball. Also Fred should have done “due diligence” in ordering his 911. Even in ’68 it took me well over a month to decipher the Porsche ordering system to place a Factory order for my 911. I think that is true even today.

Has Fred retrofitted a cooler?

Please forward me his contact info – it has been 20+years.

Best,
Grady

[herman maire]

I have been wondering about this since last year when I got my car....

My 73 coupe I was very surprised to see, did not have a front mounted cooler.

My car has a sunroof(very rare) , No sport seats, No front mounted cooler. Weird order sheet to say the least.
Does this take some value away from the car?

[Soterik]

Originally posted by herman maire
I have been wondering about this since last year when I got my car....

My 73 coupe I was very surprised to see, did not have a front mounted cooler.

My car has a sunroof(very rare) , No sport seats, No front mounted cooler. Weird order sheet to say the least.
Does this take some value away from the car?

You an add sport seats and a correct cooler...but you can't add a sunroof easily. So you have more value than a similar car without a roof, but less value than a car with a roof, seats, and cooler, condition of the cars being the same.

Over-riding issue of value is the condition of the car. I sold a 73S sunroof car, sports seats, cooler, non matching engine, but it had an Andial rebuilt low mileage 2.7RS MFI engine and an Andial prepped limited slip gearbox. Car sold for $26,000 about 5 months ago, but it needed paint, and had a couple of very small rust issues in the fenders, but that's big $$ to do right.

Also the value question only really matters if you're going to sell your car.. and your not doing that right?

[pwd72s]

Originally posted by Grady Clay
Paul,

You are correct, Fred Flegel's Porsche dealer should have been more on the ball. Also Fred should have done “due diligence” in ordering his 911. Even in ’68 it took me well over a month to decipher the Porsche ordering system to place a Factory order for my 911. I think that is true even today.

Has Fred retrofitted a cooler?

Please forward me his contact info – it has been 20+years.

Best,
Grady

Fred sold the car years ago. We haven't been in contact for decades, and my recent attempts to get back in touch haven't been successful. I should try harder.

Guys, I want to add here...if Wayne had a tech quiz...IMHO, Grady would be the winner.

[GIBSON]

This 73 oil cooler thing comes up every now and then and the same discussion follows. I have owned some very low miles, original cars, both Targas and coupes, one or two with factory Behr a/c and they did not have front oil coolers. I have checked carefully for evidence of pre-exisiting mounts for the cooler and or
oil thermostat, checked the stud in the right rear wheel housing and it's never been touched etc. I'm convinced that many did not ever have the front cooler.
My current car was purchased new from Bozzani in Los Angeles
and has never had an oil cooler.
I have seen factory coolers on '73's and they've all been trombone types.
Agree that all of these cars will do well with a cooler installed and plan to install one on mine eventually. I'm going to go with the 32 tube if I can get the mounts figured out..