SWB cars and handling questions

[shbop]

I've read that the swb cars, early ones, had some handling problems that were solved by adding weight to the front. Somewhere, I read that this problem could be solved by updating chassis hardware from later model 911's. Does anyone know about this, and if it's worth the effort? Will later model control arms, tie rods, ball joints, etc. work with the old chassis? I don't plan on racing my car, but I like playing with it, and since the tie rods, ball joints, and stuff in the back will probably need replacing because of age, I thought I'd ask. Any input greatly appreciated!

[304065]

1966 911 suspension options

[williecoyote]

I seem to recall that 75 lbs of lead was put in the front bumper of '68 year model 911s to compensate for the instability of the short wheelbase. By the time the word got out on the "ballast", the tie rods or something were upgraded, which solved the problem.

[ttweed]

Originally posted by williecoyote
I seem to recall that 75 lbs of lead was put in the front bumper of '68 year model 911s to compensate for the instability of the short wheelbase. By the time the word got out on the "ballast", the tie rods or something were upgraded, which solved the problem.

It was 50 lbs. of cast iron that was added in two 25 lb. "reinforcements" to each side of the front bumper, and it happened well before '68. The early ball joint design was found to be responsible finally, and the A-arms were revised in '69 along with the increase in wheelbase to move the Cg forward, and changing to dual batteries stuck into boxes in the wheel wells forward of the front tires instead of the iron ballast.

You can easily change out the whole front suspension on the early SWB to the later years and gain the improvements to ball joints and struts/brakes, but the rear is problematic to swap out because of the wheelbase length change.

Personally, I think the main handling problem with the early cars was the 4.5" wheels with 165 tires. With 6" or even 7" Fuchs and 205 tires, there really is no stability problem that can't be taken care of by learning to drive the car well. Just replace worn bushings/tie rods/ball joints/shocks etc. if they need it and drive the thing. My '67S has over 230,000 miles on it and it is still going strong, with no updating to the suspension other than turbo tie rods, bigger sway bars and adjustable spring plates. On a short, tight track, it will still give the new cars fits.

TT

[shbop]

Thanks for the replys. Tom, changing the wheels and tires is definitly on the agenda, but I was thinking the limit was 6". Sevens all around are not a problem? Are you running 205's all around? How large did you go on the sway bars? Thanks in advance.

[ttweed]

I use 6" Fuchs with 205/60-15 tires on the street, and 7" w/ 205/50-15 for autox. The 7s do require fender lip rolling and negative camber, so if you aren't trying to max things out, 6" rims work great, and the 60 series tires fill the wheel wells better and have a more compliant ride quality.

Street setup:



for the track:



Sway bars are 18mm factory (non-adjustable) front and rear.

This car was PCA Zone 8 autox series champ in G-Stock class last year-- undefeated all season and posted 2 second-place finishes overall in 10 events around the Zone, beating everything but a modified 914 on those two occasions on raw time. If the SWB handling is "problematic," maybe some of the newer cars could use some problems like that. At 39 years of age, it can run with a well-driven Boxster S on a short course, which is a heck of an autox car.

I wrote a few stories for our region newsletter about last year's series that I have archived on my website here, if you have some time to waste reading self-indulgent trivia:

Zone 8 doubleheader

SAR region at Pinal

Have fun,
TT

[shbop]

Tom, Thank you very much! I wish we had the facilities over here to get on a track, but unfortunately, that's not the case. I have to enjoy that aspect vicariously at the moment. So, 6's it is!

PS Enjoyed the extra reading!

[ttweed]

Originally posted by shbop
Tom, Thank you very much! I wish we had the facilities over here to get on a track, but unfortunately, that's not the case.

Are you in Hawaii? I know I see reports in the SCCA newsletter of autox and track events on Oahu, I think? Are you on one of the outer islands?

TT

[shbop]

No, I'm on Oahu. Unfortunately the land that the current facility sits on has become to valuable. There is quit a contraversy at the moment about it's future. The local clubs are all trying to get the City, and or State, to commit to a future site. It seems privately, no one wants to step-up to the plate. We'll see what happens. As you can imagine, land issues have become more volitile here. It's hard to put 5 1/2 lbs in a in a 5 lb. can.

[ttweed]

Originally posted by shbop
Unfortunately the land that the current facility sits on has become to valuable. There is quit a contraversy at the moment about it's future.

That's a bummer. We are looking at the loss of our local venue in San Diego, Qualcomm (formerly Jack Murphy) Stadium, in the next few years. The Padres built a new ballpark and now the Chargers want a new one, too. They're talking about building condos and office buildings in the big parking lot we use to pay for a new stadium. It's only a matter of time (and big money politics) and we're going to be SOL.

TT

[shbop]

At least you could possibly drive or trailer your car to another venue. I've got to figure out a way to add a propeller!