Need Help G50

88911coupe · 05-12-2005, 10:06 PM

No luck on search but I think someone had this problem recently. '88 G50 suddenly clutch pedal sporadically not returning completely after being depressed. Clutch will work but I'm not sure how long this will be. I can manage to get the pedal back to it's normal position but can someone tell me what's going on and how hard is it to fix. I am traveling in Dallas so I guess I could take it to one of the guys I used when I lived here but I'd prefer to just nurse it back till I can get back to Tulsa.
Any help would be appreciated.
Sincerely,

Dixie · Dixie's Garage

You have a hydraulic leak. I'd guess the slave is leaking. The job is not too hard; however, it can be a challenge to get on. The slave is on top of the transmission. There isn't much room for two hands.

88911coupe · 05-13-2005, 04:34 AM

Thanks for the reply...can I assume there's no engine drop required? Also, is there anything in the pedal area I should check now that it's light and I can see?
Thanks again for the reply.

dean · 05-13-2005, 04:49 AM

It could also be air in the line. I would look for a leak and bleed the system before I replaced parts. You can replace the clutch slave without dropping the motor but it isn't easy. If I were doing a slave I would remove the shift coupler and drop the tranny a few inches to make it easier on me. You can also check the clutch master for a leak.

Are you loosing fluid?
Dean

88911coupe · 05-13-2005, 05:22 AM

I'm going to check to see if any fluid is on the ground but I could get the pedal to come back up fully and it would seem to stay there and work perfectly for the last 2 hours of the trip. I did not try to use it very much since I just wanted to get to my destination. I was also thinking that there may have been something blocking the return of the pedal but so far I can't see anything that could have caused that.
Thanks

Quicksilver · 05-13-2005, 05:22 AM

One thing that will 'confuse' the feel of the pedal is there is a helper spring on the clutch pedal and if you have a condition where the clutch isn't helping push the pedal all the way up, the helper spring can help hold the pedal down.

So like Rob told you, it is most likely that there is a lot of air in the system or it is leaking somewhere. The only way to bleed the clutch is with a pressure bleeder. If you try to do it the old 'press and release' way you will only use up brake fluid an patience.

Look for leaks under the drivers footboard too. While you are looking at it take a look at the weird clutch linkage and the helper spring. It will help you understand why it isn't coming back up.

88911coupe · 05-13-2005, 05:22 AM

I forgot to ask...what is the type of hydraulic fluid I need? I don't ahve any manuals or anything with me.

KTL · 05-13-2005, 05:25 AM

Sure you can check the pedal area.

Just take the floorboard off and you'll see the clutch master cylinder inside the pedal cluster on the right side. It will be readily apparent if there is a leak coming from the master.

The slave and master replacements are kind of a toss-up IMO, as far as difficulty. The slave is a pain because of the tough to get at it factor. The master is a pain because you have to remove the pedal cluster.

Like Dean said, try bleeding the system first. And manual bleeding gives marginal results. So pressure bleeding is pretty much a must for doing the clutch.

dean · 05-13-2005, 05:46 PM

The clutch shares the same fluid as the brakes so use good brake fluid.

I almost always vacume bleed clutches and brakes. Most of the time it works great. Vacume bleeding clutches has only failed 2 times for me. Then I pressure bleed them. The most important thing is don't let the clutch master suck air. Keep the resivoir full when bleeding. And Kevin is correct, manual bleeding sucks.

Dean

88911coupe · 05-15-2005, 06:40 PM

OK, back home and access to the net finally. Just to update this problem is starting to seem more like an issue with the pedal mechanism itself. It only does this on rare occasions and its as if something is keeping the pedal from returning completely. On the rare times is acts up I can tap the pedal from the other side and it will instantly return. The fluid level seems dead on full just as it has ever since I replaced the fluid about a year and a half ago. If it was low on fluid or leaking wouldn't it be acting up all the time rather than just the rare 2-3%? I found some small pebbles under the area by the pedal that looked like they could interfere with the pedals return but it still does it on occasion. I'll look more closely when I can see better.
Thanks,

ghnat · ghnat's Garage

You may want to replace the pedal cluster bushings if they are the original ones. My brake pedal would not fully return some times. Replacing all the bushings made the cluster feel like butter!

88911coupe · 05-15-2005, 08:05 PM

Greg, I think you are right. The hydraulic action seems to work perfectly and consistently, even when the pedal hangs up on the last few degrees of movement.

ghnat · ghnat's Garage

It was also a good time for me to change out the clutch mast cyl. The rubber boot was torn and I did not want any brake fluid running into the pedal cluster. While you are in there (those famous words) check hoses in the vacinity and replace any cracked ones.

88911coupe · 04-26-2006, 01:21 PM

Update. I really began to suspect this was a hydraulic problem since I can hold my foot on the clutch lightly and it will slowly depress. I can then pull the pedal back up and if I press quickly on the pedal the clutch disengages as normal. Based on info from searches I decided the likely problem was the slave cylinder. I replaced that (what a PITA) and then bled the system with a pressure bleeder. It seemed to work fine and then after about 3-4 times the problem returned exactly as before. I assume now it's the master however I am not seeing ANY fluid anywhere. It seems like the seal inside the master is allowing fluid by if it's under light or constant pressure but it works fine if I depress the pedal quckly as with normal driving. FWIW the clutch system had not been open for any reason prior to this problem starting so I don't know how air could have gotten in. It is quickly getting worse so I assume the o ring/seal is deteriorating. Wouldn't air in the system affect it whether I depressed the clutch quickly or slowly? I should note that I replaced the brake light hydraulic switches but I think this problem started prior and the are not connected systems...correct?
Sorry for the long post but I wanted to get as much detail out as possible.
TIA

ianc · 04-26-2006, 09:50 PM

Why have you given up suspecting a sticky clutch pedal bushing
linkage that is not allowing the pedal to return? If the clutch is working fine and not leaking fluid, that's where I would start...

ianc

Jim Smolka · 04-27-2006, 01:51 AM

How old is the clutch? If it is the orginal one, the arm that moves the Throwout bearing may be binding. Does the clutch pedal feel heavy? If so, then it may be time to replace the clutch and then upgrade to the newer TO bearing lever arm system developed for later G50 systems. However, the upgrade is a bolt on and does not require drilling the G50 case

FWIW, I have a tech article on how to replace the clutch on a G50 car as describes the upgrade. If a copy is needed, send me an email at racing914six at aol dot com

KCinBR · KCinBR's Garage

I had similar experience on my 88 Carerra.
I found the pin that holds the pedal to the shaft was broken and the pedal would slip on the shaft cost me $1.10 to fix

It was not totally slipping but only slipping a little bit ..enough to give the impression that there was another problem.

Hope this helps.............KC

Quicksilver · 04-27-2006, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 88911coupe
Update. I really began to suspect this was a hydraulic problem since I can hold my foot on the clutch lightly and it will slowly depress.
. . .

If I am reading this correctly you are saying that if you press the clutch pedal it will slowly drop towards the floor. If so, the only way that the pedal can move without causing any action is if the master cylinder isn't holding the pressure.

If what you are seeing is that you hold a steady pedal pressure and the pedal will slowly go down even though you are holding the pressure steady, then the master cylinder is game over. What you would be feeling is the fluid slowly leaking past the piston seal.

It that isn't it then a more detailed desctription would help...

88911coupe · 04-27-2006, 01:47 PM

Thanks for the replies...I don't have interenet access so it takes a while to check. Wayne/Quicksilver, you have the symptoms correct and I'd just replaced the slave cylinder since the general concensus was that was the one most likely to fail. Oh well, it looks like I'll be putting the master in this weekend. Just to clarify, I can push down on the clutch and it will eventually start dropping and just stay on the floor. This is not, IMHO, related to the well known throw out bearing since this has already been replaced and I know what that feels like since it happened to my 87. This is definitely hydraulic related but I'm surprised the fluid is not leaking into the floorboard and it's not leaking at the back/slave other than a few drops and, as I mentioned, it's been replaced. I noticed in the cross section diagram in Bentley that the master looks like it has 2 pistons so it's possible the fluid is leaking past the first seal and accumulating in the middle then getting sucked back when I pull the clutch pedal up. I also assume this is not a air bubble since if I push on the clutch pedal quickly it works great, and the system had been sealed prior to this problem which is slowly getting worse.

dean · 04-27-2006, 03:18 PM

Hi Buck,

I think you are correct replacing the master. That is what it sounds like your problem is. If it were an air bubble you would most likely not have any clutch action. (pedal goes to floor with no release)

Have fun with the master. Messy PITA