How much $$$$ for a top end rebuild and what work is done?

[reamed911]

I have received what seems to be a very high labor quote for a top end rebuild on my 71 911E.

What does the mechanic mean when he says I need a "top end rebuild". What work is he doing? My MFI is fresh rebuilt and he says that is fine. Sorry for the newbie questions, but just his charge for labor makes me wonder why anyone would bother to go to med school. I can only imagine the parts and machine work costs.

[HarryD]

I had a top end done two years ago.

A top end would include:

R&R of the motor
Disassembly and inspection of the heads and, possibly, the pistons/cylinders
Machining the heads (decking, guides springs, valves etc).
Reassembly and adjustment

Labor wooud be in the 30 to 40 hour range ($2,500-$3,000)
Machine work can $3-500 for the heads (depends where you live)
Parts (gaskets etc) can easily hit $1-1,500

And then there are the "while you are there things" like replacing the clutch, other repairs etc. And then there are upgrade where the sky is the limit.

Help us out a bit, post your location in your signature and tell us the symptoms that got you into the shop.

Also, the shop owner should be more than happy to detail out exactly what he is going to do for you as well. If he does not, find a another guy.

[reamed911]

So 30-40 hours for a top end, including the hours spent doing the valve job?

So only 10 more hours to do a complete rebuild including splitting the case and reassembly of the crank and rods?

So $5000 is about a going rate for just labor on an engine that puts out 155hp? So about $10000 if I'm lucky for a complete rebuild in a car that's worth about $15000 and has 155 hp?

I'm in the Burbank area. This is from a very reputable shop in the LA area.

[tonypeoni]

I had it done an a SC for 4k. I dont if its any harder to do on a early 911.

[reamed911]

I just had my MFI and throttle bodies done too at a cost of about $2200.

So counting my fuel injection, figure $12000 for a rebuilt to stock spec engine that has 155 hp?

[tonypeoni]

You could get a 930 rebuilt for 10k. lol

[rlh930]

It is not necessary to pay outrageous amounts of money for this kind of work. Try a place called "Motor Meister" in the LA area. They know the value of a dollar.

[tonypeoni]

Here we go!

[rlh930]

lol

[reamed911]

Originally posted by rlh930
It is not necessary to pay outrageous amounts of money for this kind of work. Try a place called "Motor Meister" in the LA area. They know the value of a dollar.

Look man, I live in Burbank. You ever see a turnip truck in Burbank?

[Evans, Marv]

What a great reply !!! LOL

[John Brandt]

don't your patients remit their co-theft?

[reamed911]

Seriously guys, this is really making me consider abandoning the marque. This same shop did a COMPLETE rebuild for me only three years ago on a different early 911 and the LABOR cost was $3000 including R&R. On this one, it's almost the same price and I will be R&R-ing the motor myself and delivering it myself and picking it up and reinstalling it myself. And just having the top end done!!!!!!!!

I'm really interested in the prices you guys have paid for recent top end and complete rebuilds. You know, I can afford it, I just really don't feel like I want to afford it. It's obscene.

[HarryD]

Originally posted by reamed911
So 30-40 hours for a top end, including the hours spent doing the valve job?

So only 10 more hours to do a complete rebuild including splitting the case and reassembly of the crank and rods?

So $5000 is about a going rate for just labor on an engine that puts out 155hp? So about $10000 if I'm lucky for a complete rebuild in a car that's worth about $15000 and has 155 hp?

I'm in the Burbank area. This is from a very reputable shop in the LA area.

Scary, isn't it? If you do a total rebuild, dropping in a 3.0/3.2 engine is a very attractive alternative. If you already have the front cooler lines/thermostat, it is almost silly not to go that way and pick up the extra ponies in the light body for less than the cost of the rebuild.

Now if you want to do your entire engine, the SC folks will tell you to go ahead as most of the difficult work is with the heads. They are correct, except for one, small detail...

They have an aluminium block, you have an magnesium block. Over the years the magnesium block has stress relieved and if you spilt the block, you have a very high likelyhood you will need to get the block reworked to get the case faces to align. Since oversize bearings are very, very expensive, just machining the halves and align boring will not cut it. you will need some fancy machining to align the halves and be able to use standard bearing sizes, ka-ching!

[reamed911]

This is really the most important question I have. Of the 30-40 hours of labor for this top end rebuild, how much of it involves disassembly of the heads, and valves springs. How much of it involves doing the actual "valve job", and how much of it involves reassembling the heads?

Besides this work here, how much time is invested in re-installing reground cams and cam followers and cam timing it?

What is the major PITA of doing a top end rebuild? What takes so flippin' long? Is the valve job itself 20 of the 30-40 hours? etc?

Thanks for the help. My frustration level is at an all time high with Porsche.

[HarryD]

Originally posted by reamed911
This is really the most important question I have. Of the 30-40 hours of labor for this top end rebuild, how much of it involves disassembly of the heads, and valves springs. How much of it involves doing the actual "valve job", and how much of it involves reassembling the heads?

Besides this work here, how much time is invested in re-installing reground cams and cam followers and cam timing it?

What is the major PITA of doing a top end rebuild? What takes so flippin' long? Is the valve job itself 20 of the 30-40 hours? etc?

Thanks for the help. My frustration level is at an all time high with Porsche.

From what I have gathered, the 30-40 hours does not include the machine shop time to disassemble, inspect, replace valve guides, grind seats, deck heads, test springs and reassemble.

My friend, these are expensive cars and the engines are not like a push rod V-8. There are many nuances in the engine. Get Waynes Rebuild book and decide for yourself.

[reamed911]

Originally posted by HarryD
My friend, these are expensive cars and the engines are not like a push rod V-8. There are many nuances in the engine. Get Waynes Rebuild book and decide for yourself.

I'll remember that the next time a 944 or a Miata are giving me fits on the track. "Nuances" I'll say to myself, "make my engine cost as much as that entire car in my mirror there that I can't shake off of my bumper".

No disrespect intended Harry. I really appreciate you taking the time to counsel me.

[racea911]

My friend and mechanic said a couple of weeks ago while on a frustrating part of a rebuild - *%@*ing German engineering. 2,000 parts to make 200 horsepower and a V8 is 200 parts to make 300 horsepower!

I hear you reamed911. I hear you big time!

[HarryD]

Originally posted by reamed911
I'll remember that the next time a 944 or a Miata are giving me fits on the track. "Nuances" I'll say to myself, "make my engine cost as much as that entire car in my mirror there that I can't shake off of my bumper".

No disrespect intended Harry. I really appreciate you taking the time to counsel me.

None taken. The engines are different. I felt the same way when I first started investigating top end options for my car.

[Vipergrün]

Reamed, "why" do you need a top-end rebuild? What are the symptons/problems with your motor?

RLH930, you are kidding, right? Or just clueless?