R-414B as an alternative to R-12???

[Fox 79SC]

I follow the PCA tech questions for the SC's and there was mention that R-414B could be used and is compatible with mineral based systems. I assume that means that it can be used with the OEM hardware and no costly upgrade would be needed.

I have a 79 911SC with factory air that doesn't seem run cold, although I did not test it for long for fear of compressor damage. I live in Atlanta and it gets mighty hot but I had no intention to upgrade based on cost.

I realize that even when working, the AC is less than ideal but is this a good alternate refrigerant to use?? Any first hand experience out there??

Thanks for the input.

-John

[sprio]

Hey John, ask around the Atlanta area, you may still find an independent or A/C specialist shop that carries R-12. I was almost talked into converting to R-134a until I found a shop that still had R-12. I'm taking it to them next week to have the system tested for leaks and recharged.

Bruce

[cashflyer]

Even though R-12 production was halted in 1996, you can still find it in many places.... you can even order it online for about $6 per can iirc.

Initially, the prices climbed to unbelievable numbers. The last 30lb tank of R-12 that I had to buy with my previous employer cost us over $900.

But people gradually converted, and all new cars came with 134. This led to the demand price of 12 coming back down. Just keep in mind that the supply is finite.

As for R414, it is a blend of R-22, R-124 and R-142b with hydrocarbon R-600a (isobutane) added to improve mineral oil miscibility. This blend can be used to retrofit R-12 automotive air conditioning systems as well as stationary refrigeration systems. The pressure and system capacity match R-12 in 45F to 50F evaporators, and the discharge pressure in hot condensers is only 5 to 10 psi higher than R-12 (a benefit in automotove AC and warmer refrigeration environments). The temperature glide runs about 13F in the evaporator.
Courtesy of National Refrigerants website

You may also check out this thread which discusses ES12.
Info for R12 users

[JBO]

My BMW R-12 system developed a leak and quit blowing cold last spring. I charged it once with R-12 but it only lasted a few weeks. I looked into the expensive 134 conversion and on the advise of my p-car mechanic ordered a "freeze 12" kit, including sealer, off e-bay for around $50. I admit I was skeptical. Evacuated the system and put in the sealer and 2 cans of freeze 12, and a year later it is still blowing cold. Thus I'm not sure exactly what the stuff is, but can recommend it.

[cashflyer]

I'm not exactly sure of the formulation of Freeze-12, but according to the EPA site it is a blend which still contains some amount of class 1 ozone depleter. According to the TCC website (the manufacturer) they claim it is the only direct replacement for R12 that is approved by the EPA.

According to the EPA website, because Freeze-12 contain ODS, you must be licensed to purchase it - just like with regular R12.

You can order some of the refrigerants online here, but I'm not sure about their process for verifying your 608/609 certification status.

Of course, there's always eBay.

[defcon65]

R-12 is still being manufactured, just not in the states. It's a superior, low-cost refrigerant. There's alot of it coming out of Asia on the black market. The Indians, Chinese and Russians could give a hoot about EPA regs, it's the dollar they are interested in. I'm not suggesting anyone engage in illegal commerce, but the stuff is out there.

[nhromyak]

I am using R-12a with good results. I get about 20 - 25 degree difference in vent temps. I think this should be better.

I replaced my seals with a seal kit, flushed the lines with mineral spirits and replaced my expansion valve with a new one.

My compressor has had a leak on the input clutch side. I need a seal and will be doing this again as soon as I one!