A/C service question

greglepore · 06-19-2006, 11:42 AM

So, in a dimbulb moment I put the worm drive on the turbo plumbing pipe clamp facing up, wherein it then punched a beaucoup large hole in my decklid condesor. A fellow Pelican gave me a bro deal on a replacement (kudos to rfuerst, you da man).

Since the system is now empty, I seem to recall that I need to pull a vaccum before charging. Is there a cowboy way to diy this, or am I better off just dropping it off at a shop?

Joeaksa · 06-19-2006, 12:06 PM

If you do not know how to do it, and have the equipment, then take it to someone who knows how to do it and does it for a living.

You would need gauges and a vacuum pump. Neither are very expensive but if you never fuss with it then its not something that most people buy.

Also you will need a dryer. If its been exposed to the atmosphere (open to air) then its no good anylonger. Buy one and take it with you when you go to a shop.

1982911SCTarga · 06-19-2006, 12:12 PM

At a minimum, you'll need a manifold gauge set and a vacuum pump of some sort. I do the A/C on all of my cars. It's DIY-able and you'll save significant money. However, if you have to buy the equipment and are lacking in experience or help, you might be better off taking it to a shop. You pays your money ...

Brian
(Always looking for cowboy solutions)

jwmarc · jwmarc's Garage

Make sure that once you pull the vacum that you also when injecting r-12 that you get appropriate oil in the system to lube it internally.. sometimes the R-12 will have it and other times you have to add it separately...Oh yeah R-12 is as expensive as a mother .....

Tim Hancock · 06-19-2006, 01:30 PM

Here is a link from when I repaired then recharged mine as a DIY project. I did use a vacuum pump and gages (might not quite qualify as "cowboy" job) that a friend let me use (he ended up letting me just have them). I did this about 1 year ago and it is still working great (wife and I just drove a couple hundred miles in it on Saturday in mid 90 temps and most of the time the fan was only set on one of the medium positions!). I recently rebuilt a Nippondenso compressor then charged with 134 my daughter's 924S and it works great too.

It obviously can be done by a DIY'er, but you need to address oil issues and have a basic understanding of how basic AC systems work.
DIY 134 conversion in SC complete!

1982911SCTarga · 06-19-2006, 01:45 PM

I would look to convert to R-134, but that's just me. All my vehicles are R-134 now.

"Cowboy" might come into play in terms of what you use to vacuum your system. I've used a cheapie Harbor Freight venturi pump that uses my shop air compressor with good results on two vehicles. The techs will say this isn't as good as a dedicated stand-alone vacuum pump.

My Haynes A/C techbook says both (venturi-type or regular vacuum pump) will work. Your mileage may vary. Again, you pays your money ...

Tim, I'm curious about your daughter's 924. How does the A/C system compare to your SC in terms of effectivness? The 924, like most "normal"-type vehicles would have a slight edge correct?

Brian

greglepore · 06-19-2006, 02:01 PM

Mine is already 134. I have gauges. Just curious about how to pull the vaccum.

Tim Hancock · 03:34 PM

The electric vacuum pump I used is ancient but it works. Seems like I have heard somewhere about guys making vac pumps out of old refrigerator pumps. I know the venturi pumps do work somewhat, but they typically cannot pull quite as much vacuum which means you are not going to do as good of a job boiling off all the moisture. My guess is that the NEW drier probably takes care of what moisture is left. While it may not be the way a professional shop that is charging money might do it, it obviously has been done by quite a few DIY's with generally good results.

Brian, the 924S's AC kicks @ss! It puts out a ton of cold out of the center vents. My old York in the SC gets the air pretty cold (mid 40's on a hot day at the vent), but with my black interior, it takes 5 minutes or so of non stop and go traffic to cool the heat soaked interior down to comfortable levels. Even on a 95 degree day, it will easily keep the interior plenty cool, it just takes awhile if the car has been sitting out in the sun all day. I think if the fan was a little bigger, the cool down time would be reduced even though more air thru the condensor probably would increase the output temp a little. Anyhow, I am completely satisfied with the performance (and believe it or not it IS hot AND humid in Ohio during the summer).

1982911SCTarga · 06-19-2006, 04:16 PM

Hey, Tim. I'm very happy with the AC in my SC, too, and it's been dang warm around here lately. I was just curious what your first-hand view is on the 924. I'm guessing it cools off a little quicker because of better air flow over the condenser and possibly more condenser area.

I find it interesting that my wife's Jeep Cherokee cools off from being parked in a parking lot on a 90-plus day in about one-third the time it takes my SC to get comfy. A big condenser with an electric fan, plus the radiator fan and a little forward movement brings the cold on. The vent temps feel about the same between the two.

Oh, the AC on my Wrangler? I haven't a clue. I'm the only guy who drives it and I'm too cheap to run the air in it. I'd rather sweat a bit than fork over more fuel money.

Tim's right, I think, about the venturi pump. In all my cases, I replaced the receiver/drier (it's a consumable) and I believe that takes care of the moisture issue. Also, shops that are paid to do this type of work will tend to err on the side of caution.

Us cheap cowboys, however ....

Brian

scottb · 06-19-2006, 06:47 PM

Don't bother with a venturi pump. They're next-to-worthless. Find a local Pelican who has a vacuum pump and borrow it. Or, buy a good used on on eBay or Craig's List. Or, just let your local shop draw it down. DON'T rely on the receiver/drier to remove the moisture. Do it the right way, or don't waste your time and money.

My $.02.

Scott

greglepore · 06-20-2006, 03:38 AM

I'll let a shop do it. I'm waiting to hear from Ron at Procooler about the price for his receiver/drier as I have one of those currently. May go back to a generic one if his remains around 300 bucks. Scott, I seem to recall that you knew something about those and a potential generic equivalent?

Tim Hancock · 06-20-2006, 04:00 AM

I purchased my drier for about $20 at an Advance Auto parts store. $300 for a drier is crazy.

Scott, I agreed above that a venturi pump will not typically pull as much vacuum, but surely you will acknowledge that many people have used one succesfully when recharging their AC systems.

Joeaksa · 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by scottb
Don't bother with a venturi pump. They're next-to-worthless. Find a local Pelican who has a vacuum pump and borrow it. Or, buy a good used on on eBay or Craig's List. Or, just let your local shop draw it down. DON'T rely on the receiver/drier to remove the moisture. Do it the right way, or don't waste your time and money.

My $.02.

Scott

Scott is spot on here. The venturi pump is worthless unless you are ready to let it run for hours, and have an industrial sized air compressor that can handle the pressure and volume of air it really needs to work properly.

I found a new dryer on Ebay for my car for just over $50. $300 is plain crazy and there are more reasonable priced units out there.

BTW, was just in Ohio and Tim flew down to say hello. It gets hotter than you would think in that area, and very humid, so they really need good A/C there.

Tim Hancock · 06-20-2006, 07:47 AM

Water boils at 80 deg F at about 29" mercury. Most venturi style pumps can only get down to about 27" at best. That said, a good portion of moisture containing air is removed (while obviously still leaving some moisture clinging inside) and the fact that many people have done this less than optimum "evacuation" procedure leaves me to believe that a little moisture left in some systems does not always result in freeze ups. No doubt, long term, moisture will tend to corrode things and may cause some sludging, but in the real world, many guys are getting by for a long time with this less than "ideal" situation. I still wonder how much moisture a "new" fresh drier removes? I would bet that many chain type shops do not always have their vacuum equipment in the best condition and I would guess that many vehicles leave the place with "some" moisture still remaining.

Here is a link to where I got my drier for $20. I used the cheaper one which required me to make a small aluminum 180 deg tube to allow it to fit. The one below it though looks to be a perfect match for the original.
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductList.aspx?parttype=397&ptset=A&searchfor=Receiver+Drier+%2f+Acumulator

greglepore · 06-20-2006, 07:51 AM

Ron replied to an email, and he is of the opinion that the drier is likely ok, but he'll take care of me either way.
The $300 price is for the complete kit with the hoses etc.,, not what he'ld charge an existing customer for a replacement drier. The product worked for me, so I'll likely take him up on it.

Joeaksa · 06-20-2006, 09:24 AM

Greg,

If you have had a hole in your system then the dryer has been trying to dry out the entire world, which it cannot do. Pls spend the $20 and get a new one, you will be a lot happier with the outcome.

Joe A

rfuerst911sc · 06-20-2006, 01:08 PM

Greg I just sent you a PM.