This is Just Wrong!!!

[jluetjen]

This just tiplifies just about everything that's wrong about our society. Admittedly I don't think that I'll ever be at risk from having my CGT bite me since I doubt I'll ever be able to afford even the wheel and tire off of one, but still this is just sick!

1) Stupid rich person buys the fastest and most expensive car that they can afford and stuffs it. Scratch one nice car and notch up one incremental improvement in the gene pool.

2) Greedy survivor(s) and lawyers team up to ream anyone who ever looked at the car -- as if that will make up for the death of their loved one. It's not like money made them happy in the first place, and now they want to take more away from someone else. Sure sounds like good money chasing bad to me.

3) The rest of us will have our insurance go up, and our hobby become unaffordable as a result of all the litigation.

At the end of the day, no-one's happy. Not the dead people, not their survivors and not most of the reasonable people who used to enjoy Porsches. Ok -- maybe the Lawyers will go home happy, but that's about a perverse as a smiling undertaker.



Rant over!

[Plavan]

I with you.... Maybe they should use this email from Tracy I found searching the internet...... "Car Racing"
Shame on you Mrs. Rudl.... Shame on you.
http://www.home-business-tips-newsletter.com/forum/post-2203.html

[911 heathen]

Bro, I disagree.

If anything comes out of this tragic accident (yes, accident) and pending legal case that prevents further such incidents, then all the better for all of us who may go near a race circuit.

One day I may have the privilege of owning a car such as a CGT; but when it comes to enjoying such a car on a closed circuit, I hope my use of the car will be regulated to buggery so I don't present a danger to myself or others.

OK, I can see some of the fun being taken out of track sessions but long live Supercars and Joe Public driving them in the manner they were designed...

[Zeke]

That leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth. I can only hope the widow that filed this suit lives a miserable life from this day on. She deserves what she is making of this for the others like the other car's driver and the flagman. If I say any more, it will just get uglier.

[ruf-porsche]

Originally posted by jluetjen
This just tiplifies just about everything that's wrong about our society. Admittedly I don't think that I'll ever be at risk from having my CGT bite me since I doubt I'll ever be able to afford even the wheel and tire off of one, but still this is just sick!

1) Stupid rich person buys the fastest and most expensive car that they can afford and stuffs it. Scratch one nice car and notch up one incremental improvement in the gene pool.

2) Greedy survivor(s) and lawyers team up to ream anyone who ever looked at the car -- as if that will make up for the death of their loved one. It's not like money made them happy in the first place, and now they want to take more away from someone else. Sure sounds like good money chasing bad to me.

3) The rest of us will have our insurance go up, and our hobby become unaffordable as a result of all the litigation.

At the end of the day, no-one's happy. Not the dead people, not their survivors and not most of the reasonable people who used to enjoy Porsches. Ok -- maybe the Lawyers will go home happy, but that's about a perverse as a smiling undertaker.



Rant over!

You should do a search on the internet before making a statement such as "Stupid rich person" There are plenty of discussions of Ben Keaton from LaJolla. If you don't know what you are talking about SHUT the FUCH UP.

[ewave]

Just sickening...

Maybe they should sue their companies/employers for paying them so much money they could afford to buy a car that they were not qualified to drive safely... If they had jobs flipping burgers they would never have been at the track to begin with.

[randywebb]

Who agrees or disagrees with this statement?

In the Turbo 930, the combination of power, turbo-lag and oversteer made the vehicle too difficult to handle for the average driver, without proper warnings and instruction.

[turborat]

Clearly, Keaton was not qualified to be driving any car "solo" on the track. The article does not speak to this issue at all. His lack of skill is what killed them and that is sad. Anybody that goes to the track (aside from real pros) to work out a handling problem on a car is not using their head. If the car is an ill handling car on the city streets, what does one expect it to do on the track in full anger. To add a degree of difficulty, he invites someone along (joy riding should be forbidden at such events). I suspect some basic DE rules were ignored here. I am generally no fan of "wrongful death" lawsuits and I do not feel the need to be protected from myself, but Rudi's wife is entitled to explore whether the "assumptions" of the signed waiver were in place on that day.

[Dantilla]

After a close family member was killed in an accident, there were several lawyers knocking at the door saying it was the family's "duty" to sue.

Ambulance chasers.

They were politely asked to leave. Still sickens me to think about it.

[oldE]

They forgot to include God in the lawsuit for making a defective idiot who should have had the suspension settings checked , should never have taken the car to a track without it being as good as it could be and invited another fool out on the track with him.

The death of two enthusiasts saddens me, but, when we sign that waiver before we buckle up, it should mean something.

Les

[jluetjen]

Originally posted by ruf-porsche
You should do a search on the internet before making a statement such as "Stupid rich person" There are plenty of discussions of Ben Keaton from LaJolla. If you don't know what you are talking about SHUT the FUCH UP.

I never met any of the parties in the suits, and can not comment on their personalities. I'm sure that they were pleasant people to be with, supported their families, dedicated co-workers and all that. No question about that. But the facts speak for themselves.

1) Person spends obsene amounts of money on a (very very very nice) car. Thus he either must be rich or criminal.
2) Person has concerns about ability of the car or driver.
3) In spite of concerns, person puts car (and stranger) in an unsafe situation and removes themselves from the gene pool. Thus he did not excercise common sense. In the vernacular he was "stupid". It is a tragidy on so many levels.
- Source of love and companionship to the friends and family is removed from the earth. Multiply by two for the passenger.
- Any opportuntities to improve the world through personal contributions of knowledge, compassion, goods or even future genetic materail (ie: future kids who might discover the cure for cancer or negotiatate world peace) are now gone.

Basically, two lives are wasted and a nice car is trashed in the process.

Now multiply that by all of the people who will be negatively impacted by the suits. The stress, the financial loss, the sense of guilt (even if they did nothing wrong). And what's to gain? A partial check for whatever money is collected? Does that make up for all of the above losses? Will it replace all of the ways that the person would have contributed to the family?

Is this what a CGT contributes to society?

Am I angry at Ben Keaten of LaJolla? No. He's beyond all of that petty worldly back-biting now.

Am I frustrated with the poor decisions that he made and how they are impacting the world that he as left?

Absolutely!

We all make bad decisions. We all need to learn to forgive and get-over other people's bad decisions. But we also need to try to do our best not to repeat bad decisions and perpetuate the negative affects on others.

I guess that's the point of my rant. If it weren't for the fact that it's a Porsche CGT that was the catalyst for this whole situation, I never would have posted it here.

Let's try to be safe in our Porsches. Ok?

[Porsche_monkey]

Originally posted by 911 heathen
Bro, I disagree.

If anything comes out of this tragic accident (yes, accident) and pending legal case that prevents further such incidents, then all the better for all of us who may go near a race circuit.

One day I may have the privilege of owning a car such as a CGT; but when it comes to enjoying such a car on a closed circuit, I hope my use of the car will be regulated to buggery so I don't present a danger to myself or others.

OK, I can see some of the fun being taken out of track sessions but long live Supercars and Joe Public driving them in the manner they were designed...

I could be wrong, but typically these lawsuits have nothing to do with 'making the world a better place'. Since I do not know these people I will not speculate on their motives, but I know what these lawsuits are usually all about.

If they really want to make changes and prevent a recurrence they should be pushing for an inquest, not looking for cash.

[juicersr]

Ahhh.... worthless american idiot belief system and the scum lawyers who multiply like maggots on carrion . "Someone must pay for my stupidity." This country and this pervasive pathetic mentality among the masses of the ignorant / greedy is only going to get worse. It's interesting... i travel all over the world, and you can drive fast and repsonsibly in Europe and South America without fear of a ticket or police harassment. If you screw up and crash your fast car, you are responsible. Will we see any lawsuits stemming from the recent 'Ring crash? Of course not.

[gerry100]

There is insuffucient injustice to support the number of lawyers we have.

This exercise is to make lawyers on both sides some money.

They will be the only winners.

[rvanderpyl]

Lets face it, if this person had gone out on the track with a car that had been working perfectly fine, and then due to a manufacturing error something broke and pitched the car into a wall killing the driver and passenger I could see the basis for a lawsuit. But that is NOT what happened, the driver took a car he knew was not handling right and instead of taking to an expert to be diagnosed and repaired he went to the track and drove it.

[RallyJon]

Originally posted by ruf-porsche
You should do a search on the internet before making a statement such as "Stupid rich person" There are plenty of discussions of Ben Keaton from LaJolla. If you don't know what you are talking about SHUT the FUCH UP.

Feel the same way about Corey Rudl? I Googled him to see who he was and then saw how he chose to make a living and all I can say is, um, well I'd better not say anything.

[ddann]

I agree with those who feel the only victors will be the army of lawyers gearing up to go through the motions of filing, refilling, and billing…

They are going after the flagman...geez

[Porsche_monkey]

Originally posted by ddann
I agree with those who feel the only victors will be the army of lawyers gearing up to go through the motions of filing, refilling, and billing…

They are going after the flagman...geez

Red Cross has to provide insurance for people they have trained in First Aid because they often get sued when they try to help accident victims...

[911teo]

There is a discussion on the CGT rennlist forum that has been going on for 1yr.

I suggest that people that makes observations about the parts involved read and inform themselves a little more.

Ben Keaton was not the last idiot with more money than brain. He had been taking cars at the track for a while and was not a novice driver.

I see the lawsuit wrong in principle but in a society like ours where we are free to do whatever we whant whenever we want it's the civil court that establishes where the limits are.

Nobody wants the law to establish if 600hp in a 3,000lbs car is too much, right?

Obviously something went wrong that day otherwise nobody would have died.

Mr Rudl climbed into the CGT by his own judgement but he did not expect to die. I am sure he was aware of the fact that it was dangerous. But something didnt work the way it was supposed to.
Like if you go bungee jumping you know there is a risk, but you expect the rope to take your weight and the guy to strap you in securely.

So I hope that the lawsuit is now motivated solely by money (maybe I am naive). But I think we can all benefit from the findings.

Maybe next time they will think abt it more before building a wall so close to the track, maybe they track organizations will employ only professionals as flagman, maybe there will be a mandatory 10 minute break between sessions etc.

Will it make the cost of going to the track higher? Maybe, but if it improves safety I am all for it. I have already spent several thousand ollars to make my car safer for the track. Treat this like you would upgrading your 4-point harness to a 6-=point one.

Again maybe I am naive and all it will do is increase the insurance for the tracks whitout chancing a bit of what they do...

But there is hope.

[ruf-porsche]

Originally posted by turborat
Clearly, Keaton was not qualified to be driving any car "solo" on the track. The article does not speak to this issue at all. His lack of skill is what killed them and that is sad. Anybody that goes to the track (aside from real pros) to work out a handling problem on a car is not using their head. If the car is an ill handling car on the city streets, what does one expect it to do on the track in full anger. To add a degree of difficulty, he invites someone along (joy riding should be forbidden at such events). I suspect some basic DE rules were ignored here. I am generally no fan of "wrongful death" lawsuits and I do not feel the need to be protected from myself, but Rudi's wife is entitled to explore whether the "assumptions" of the signed waiver were in place on that day.

Is anyone of us qualified to drive a car on the track? How many of us had enrolled in a driving school for high performance driving, and yet we go to DE and autocross thinking that we can drive just because we own a sportscar.

Any car could be ill handling on the street. Hell the first time I drove my PORSCHE in the rain the back end came around, even at moderate speed. I doubt that driven at the normal posted speed limit on the street, a CGT would be ill handling.

All racing teams spend extreme amount of time dialing in a car so that it would handle the way a driver want it to handle. Changes could be as small as changing the air pressure in the tires to changing spring rate, to setting wings angles.

Instead of two people dying that day, there could have been four people if Ben had hit the Ferrari in front of him.

I think that anyone of us driving in the same situation as Ben would have done the same thing, try to avoid the Ferrari that just came on the track.

The event that the Ferrari club put on was NOT a DE in the sense of racing, that is why passengers were allowed in the Ferrari and CGT.

More info on this tragedy and the life of Ben from LaJolla can be found on the 6speed forum.