How do you PPI when selling???

wrandyh · wrandyh's Garage

How have you handled a request for a PPI on P-cars you've sold? I ask since I've placed an ad in the local paper and hope to have some action. If not, I'll expand to the net.

I have owned the car two years and do my own maintenance so I have not used a local mechanic (Columbus Ohio).

Do you require a deposit from the prospective buyer in case the shop messes up?
Do you take the car to the shop and pick it up?
What else do I need to consider?

Thanks,

GaryR · GaryR's Garage

Randy - The PPI should, at least initially, be paid for by the buyer. You can always negotiate it into the sale price if the person buys the car (or not).. If there are shops nearby you that you trust compile a list to help prosective buyers out, or do a search on "PPI in Columbus" here to get some help. Depending on how you plan to price it, havine your own inspection done pre-sale to be able to give full disclosure isn't a horrible idea either.

Porsche_monkey · 07-26-2006, 06:29 AM

I would expect the buyer to a) pick the shop to do the PPI and b) pay for it himself. The prospective buyer then 'owns' the contents/results of the PPI. You can't expect him to pay for it, then turn the results over to you if he backs out, unless you agree beforehand that that is fair compensation for your time and effort to take the car in for inspection.

Doing a PPI yourself before the sale could cause a buyer to be leery of the results i.e. he does not know if the shop owner is a freind of yours, or if he is truly independent. Let the buyer pick the shop.

GaryR · GaryR's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by PBH
Doing a PPI yourself before the sale could cause a buyer to be leery of the results i.e. he does not know if the shop owner is a freind of yours, or if he is truly independent. Let the buyer pick the shop.

I wasn't suggesting he do the "pre" PPI for the buyer's benefit, just to make himself aware of any problems that could cause the loss of sale when they are discovered later. It's better to know of issues and disclose and/or repair them before selling a car IMO, but I may be in the minority. It's a PITA to go through negotiations, putz around getting the car to/from a PPI shop, etc. etc. just to have the whole thing go south when the PPI discovers something you didn't know about.

emcon5 · emcon5's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by PBH
The prospective buyer then 'owns' the contents/results of the PPI. You can't expect him to pay for it, then turn the results over to you if he backs out

If the prospective buyer is that asinine, I wouldn't sell him the car on principal.

I paid for it, it is mine mine mine.

Tom

Porsche_monkey · 07-26-2006, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by emcon5
If the prospective buyer is that asinine, I wouldn't sell him the car on principal.

I paid for it, it is mine mine mine.

Tom

Isn't that what I just said, he pays, he owns it?

emcon5 · emcon5's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by PBH
Isn't that what I just said, he pays, he owns it?

Note the rolleyes.

Only a Grade-A douche would do something like that. What good is a PPI for a car you aren't going to buy?

Porsche_monkey · 07:50 AM

Ohhh, I get it, I'm a bit stupid.

What if the seller is the douche-bag, and after the PPI he says he isn't selling the car? What if he gets a better offer while the PPI is going on? What if the compression is crap on one cylinder and he won't adjust his price? What if the PPI is flawless and he realizes he under-priced the car? Now he has a PPI that you paid for and a new selling price. What if he has two buyers,and the second buyer says he'll pay $500 more if the car has a PPI? I guess the first buyer who paid for the PPI is out of luck?

I know it's unlikely, but that world (eBay) is full of unscrupulous people. If he screws me over, then yes the PPI is mine mine mine. If he is amicable and fair, but you can't agree on a price, then by all means give him the PPI. But, I would not leave myself in the position where I am obliged to give him the PPI results regardless of the outcome.

wrandyh · wrandyh's Garage

I just called a respected local shop to see what they actually do when performing a PPI. They said it was a basic inspection of the vehicle that takes about an hour and costs $80. They put it up on the rack and do a thorough visual inspection and a test drive.

Is this what you guys expect when having a PPI performed when purchasing a car?

They did say that they would do a leak down if specifically requested along with any other specific checks for additional money.

Dantilla · 07-26-2006, 08:14 AM

Last time a buyer requested a PPI, I met him at the shop of his choice, and we had fun talking Porsches & stuff, and went over the results with the wrench together.

It's really nice when buyer, seller, and mechanic are all nice guys and get along like old friends.

anthony · 07-26-2006, 08:15 AM

The only problem with the before the fact PPI is that most PPIs are 90% verbal. My PPI was 2 hours with the mechanic going over every square inch of the car. I felt like I knew the car intimately afterwards. Will some mechanics sit down afterwards and spend 20 minutes writing up something more substantial for potential buyers to read?

Depending on how much the car is worth it may be worth having a full service done on the car plus a compression/leakdown test and then have the mechanic document that on the service writeup and maybe an indication that no broken head studs were found during the valve adjustment. I think this kind of service/documentation would add value back to the car and result in a faster sale at a higher price.

anthony · 07-26-2006, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Is this what you guys expect when having a PPI performed when purchasing a car?

One shouldn't settle for a simple visual inspection PPI.
A PPI needs include a compression/leakdown test and for many cars it's important to pull the valve covers and check for broken head studs.

Jastx · Jastx's Garage

My two cents -- a PPI should be the final event, after an agreement to sell and the price has been negotiated. Pending no problems of signficance are discovered with the PPI, the deal should close shortly after.

In an ethical sale -- and I have been the buyer in one of these -- you agree on the price. The PPI confirms condition. If items are found, then negotiation reopens where the seller can adjust his price or not -- it's his choice. Likewise, the buyer can elect to negotiate, still buy at the previously agreed price, or pass. During this period, the seller and buyer are committed to each other and the deal. The seller shouldn't sell to someone else and the buyer should expect to pay the seller after the PPI.

In the real world, anything can happen -- the buyer or the seller can act unfairly. If I were selling my car, I would permit a PPI and cooperate with a buyer on bringing my car there, within reason as far as time and distance is concerned. All costs would be on the seller.

As a buyer I think the seller having a copy of the results should be negotiated to be clear. The PPI on the 993 I bought cost me $700. I wouldn't just give that info to the seller if the deal fell through -- in that situation I would have just invested a lot of money to find out the car wasn't as represented. IMO, if the seller want's the PPI results, he can pay for them or have his own PPI done.

Now, any time someone messes with your car like with a PPI, there is risk. A sale of a car involving 10's of thousands of dollars is a significant financial transaction. Therefore it wouldn't be out of line, especially if the car is a concours-level beauty, to put some risk on the buyer -- like when he test drives a car at the dealer. Like a dealer, you get license and proof of insurance and have him sign a document accepting responsibility for accidents or the shop screwing up your car.

Some of these actions might kill a possible deal, but if the buyer or seller thinks the other guy is unreasonable he can withdraw. What is reasonable depends on the car and its selling price. If it's a high dollar deal there are more potential issues. A seller and buyer should agree on the price and all the other terms, like when payment is made, prior to the PPI. The more details you discuss and agree on up front the less chance there is for a problem.

anthony · 07-26-2006, 08:37 AM

What do they do during a $700 PPI?

petrolblue83911 · 07-26-2006, 08:53 AM

I think some of us are miss reading the post, I think he wants to know what the process is, not if he should do a PPI on his own, anyway,

-Basical rules I've followed are,

-test drive- with the seller in the car!

-negotiate

-PPI

As the seller you can offer to have the PPI done at a shop you are familiar with- or know by reputation (not necessarally your personal wrench), and yes-I'd come with they buyer on that one, maybe even drive your car to the PPI, meet the buyer and be present during the PPI so you know what they are doing and are comfortable with it.

wrandyh · wrandyh's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by petrolblue83911
I think some of us are miss reading the post, I think he wants to know what the process is, not if he should do a PPI on his own, anyway,

-Basical rules I've followed are,

-test drive- with the seller in the car!

-negotiate

-PPI

As the seller you can offer to have the PPI done at a shop you are familiar with- or know by reputation (not necessarally your personal wrench), and yes-I'd come with they buyer on that one, maybe even drive your car to the PPI, meet the buyer and be present during the PPI so you know what they are doing and are comfortable with it.

This is exactly what I was asking for. I found the comments on PPIs interesting tho.

Thanks to all who replied.

Don Plumley · Don Plumley's Garage

Yup, that's the process.

Reach a deal contingent on a clean PPI (or with known problems identified up front).

Take a deposit - I then return a receipt specifying contingent on a statisfactory PPI.

Let the buyer choose the shop, pays for the PPI.

Assuming all is well, finalize the financial arrangements.

Good Luck!

t6dpilot · t6dpilot's Garage

I basically agree with Don and Petrolblue. I just purchased an early 911 out of CA and I am in IL. I talked to him on the phone a couple of times to get the basic description. Posted a thread here asking if anyone in the area would look at the car. A very generous member took the time to look it over for me, take pictures, and test drive. We then agreed on a price and both signed a simple contract that I drafted and sent by fax. The contract stated that if the PPI found anything significant, that it could then be renegotiated. I sent him a deposit and we scheduled a PPI at the shop of my choice.

The PPI included a leak down test, which it passed with flying colors. The PPI found some issues that needed to be corrected. I tried to negotiate the price at that point. After some haggling he decided to think about taking the car off the market. Up until that point everything went really good. See, he did not really want to sell the car.

After a few days of pondering, he decided to sell the car, but at our original price - no discounts. It was my choice to not walk as the car was really pretty nice and fairly priced - so I agreed. If we would have decided not to sell the car, he agreed to pay for the PPI.

All in all, a pretty smooth process that went as well as a purchase should IMO.