I must be living right - bought a 85 Carrera off ebay, no PPI, no test drive until I went to pick it up. Turned out to be better than advertised, I've yet to find anything really wrong with it, other than minor things like broken seat-back levers ($1.25 each from Pelican), a paint finish that revealed more minor defects upon washing and waxing, slightly dinged front and rear valances from parking curbs, AC that blows ambient air, headliner edge coming untucked at sunroof. That's about it. I've heard all these horror stories about the Carrera valve guides but the car doesn't smoke at all and just runs beautifully. I did a full tune-up and some suspension and steering upgrades but no repairs yet except a couple battery chargings due to really cold weather the first time and leaving the door ajar with an interior light on the second time.
With all the maintenance and inspection I've done on the car since buying it, I feel I would have uncovered at least one red herring, but nothing so far.

"Rust Free" generally means the rust comes with the car for free.

No PPI and I know better but I am pretty savvy on cars.

Rusty front panel - would have been caught
Rusty rear parcel - not sure that would have been caught
No compression one cylinder - almost for sure would have been caught

I guess I should be mad but I did not pay too much and I have really enjoyed fixing it over the last five years.

Right there with ya livi....hit pelican for abuot 2 years bought and read all the books started to think I knew more than the pros (which now I kinda do on at least certain tpoics). Lost out on car after car for not acting quick enough and making the purchase. Told myself if these cars ar selling so fast (3 to7 days) then these buyers are not getting PPIs so I don't need one either. Found a car on an all Pcar lot and bought it same day. 4 days later on my way home from work after the first daily drive to work and it caught on fire on the interstate about 2 exists from my house. Fire dept was there whole 9 man. The PO have blue fuses in every spot that held fuses and the blower motor caught fire and the trunck carpet was next.

No PPI. As a matter of fact I had not even heard the term PPI until I joined this board about 1 month after the purchase. I bought my 1980SC Targa from an Acura dealer who also knew zilch about Porsches and I am still fixing/paying for years of unattended maintenance on a relatively low mileage (73,000) car. The list of fixes has been long and thank goodness the wallet has held out. It was a $12k purchase and I've probably put another $7500.00 into it fixing things! I know about 1000% more about the 911 then I did 9 months ago but........

My advice to anyone considering a 911 purchase.....GET A PPI!

motorhead...I dont know about you but fixing things has been a big part of this whole hobby/passion/fun of ownership experience or whatever you want to call it. Sure I could have gotten a 986 with a warrenty etc but how much fun it that? That whould have equalled the same ownership experience as all the Jap sports cars I had....turn key and car always starts, etc....which in those years I had no garage no extra money etc...so in that case key turn car start was a must. Now I just always try to have my Pcar ready for the Friday drive to work and weekends and if it isnt quite all back together then the pickup truck gets driven. At least where I live you cant beat a Pcar for originality b/c I never see anyone in 911s. I could count all the 911s I have seen in 5 years (minus Pcar events) on 2 hands.

KWM I couldn't agree with you more! 100% of what has been done was done in my garage with the exception of having the tires balanced! New cylinder studs, new clutch, rebuilt tranny, a/c overhaul, etc. It just ended up being more than I had planned on. Whomever eventually ends up with this car down the road in a few years will get a nicely sorted ride!

Yeah, but that's not a reason to not get a PPI. Why would anyone want to pay full price and then find low psi in a cylinder or broken head studs? It's one thing to want a project but one should know ahead of time that they are buying a project.

I had a PPI on one 911 that was long distance. They told me all about the worn carpet loose door panels, thickness of breakpads, on and on. It had a 2.7 motor.

I could not believe the results did not show a check for head studs and compression!!

Make sure you ask for specific things in the PPI, I could not have cared less about most of the other things. I only wanted to know about the motor and I ASSumed they would check that....this was a P car place too....amazing.

Oh I agree anthony...with my car it just so happends that the price was so good that from looking it over and driving it that I could clearly tell that even if some unseen issues were there I still should be fine. So with me the no PPI was a toss up b/c the seller already had another guy who was all over the car and very interested in it. I had seen and talked to the guy myself while he was there looking at this black SC and I was there looking at a grey Carerra that ended up being too far out of my price range. A PPI is important but I do think some people put way too much emphasis behind it. If I had been in the market for one of the cars with rust issues I may have a diff. opinion on this topic thought.

I think I can "win" that thread ;-)

Actually I got a phone PPI (PO said it was done last week for another buyer who backed out at the last minute - why repay, call the guy, right?)

Surprises?
- A rat cut in half and putrefied over the cooling fins of the engine
- A blown airbox + air leaks all over the CIS
- No brakes to speak of
- 3 more baby rats in the A/C in the front
- Best of all: 2 VIN#s on the car, found spliced in the middle
- Rust in the right rear window corner

Never ever buy long distance without seeing the car yourself ! ;-)

Oh ****, you win!

1987 Targa with 44,000 miles bought a year ago (6/05)

No PPI..............No issues. Car runs perfect!

Wayne, all depends how you look at it. If you end up buying a potential 15K engine rebuild without knowing it a few hundred means very little.

The best PPI I had done was by Marque Motors in Portland. They have an extensive form which goes through about everything you think you could want to know, and includes both examining and driving the car. Was not cheap (more than $200), but very complete.

Other places, you really wonder if the PPI actually got done when you meet the car....:(

Its a 72' so didn't pay for perfection nor get :)

My car stranded me within a few thousand miles (well I nursed her home in 3rd gear) after the throwout bearing failed after the retainers were installed "backwards". They put the thin portion on the working load side and it SURPRISINGLY pulled through. Shockingly stupid for an experienced PO.

did not get
 

my son saw the car on cars.com
we had lengthy emails with the owner.
i never owned a porsche and at the time did not want one but my son did so i thought that a car that might need a little work would be a good thing to do together.
i have a good ear for engines/mechanicals and took it for a run, it ran great and sounded superb.
i was unaware of this board or i would have probably passed on it since it was a mid year car.
fortunately all of the updates on the engine had been done by one of the prrior owners: carrera chain tensioners, carerra exhaust some work on the heads etc.. new clutch, new msds and all else was original
but unlucky for me it had bad fenders and rust, (i replaced with newere galvanized and had the body work fixed for a tidy sum) because i cannot do body work.
the interior needed new carpets.
the seats need repaired
the targa top needs redone
i drive it a lot and have fun with it, my wife and i use it a ton on weekends and for any errands.
if it was in great shape i would not have spent the money on it and if i had a ppi i may have been able to get a better deal, but i am happy with it as it runs great and gives me something to work on that i like.

Saw my 911 E by pics only.

1. Dealer said the MFI was switched to Webers, turned out to be Zeniths, but a nice surprise, these carbs have performed beautifully and responsive.

2. Dealer said speedometer not working, turned out to be the odometer instead.

Thought there would be body issues. Turned out body solid, instead more mechanical issues, but all fixable by myself, through Wayne's books and this board. I use the car nearly everyday (as long as no snow weather).

Got a PPI
 

Got a PPI- a post purchase inspection- even though I knew better. Another well read, researched purchaser who forgets everything they know when they see the car they have always wanted.

Wife bought it for me for my 40th birthday, so at least she was not emotionally attached and bargained hard on price. The owner at Sporthaus in Reno spent alot of time with me going over the car and even offered a PPI at their full service shop, but I thought I knew what I was getting.

After reading this thread, I was one of the lucky ones. But I wanted to do the fix up both because I enjoy it and it was a great way to get to know the car.

Strong engine- good compression- but tired interior, paint and undercarriage. Paid $8000 for an 82 911 sc targa with 68k mi.

Since I got it I have installed or replaced:
Carrera tensioners, 930 valve covers/ master cylinder/tie rods, replaced all rubber and bushings with new rubber/ poly u/ monoball cartridges, ball joints, elephant racing spring plates (poly/bronze), WM strut tower brace, sport billsteins, MSD / coil/ braided ignition set, K&N filter, weather stripping/seals, Brembo big red brakes/12.7" crossdrilled rotors/ss lines, 17" turbo twist Cup 3s, lowered/corner balanced, dash/carpet set/raised rear deck/ door pockets-panels, white guage faces, Rennline pedal set w/deadpedal, alternator, starter, clutch, H4 lights, euro lenses, carbon fiber ducktail.

To do:
Smart Racing torsion bars 22f and 29r, Smart Racing adustable sway bars/drop links, elephant racing finned oil lines, ruf yellowbird front and rear bumpers, front B&B cooler, carbon fiber hood, exhaust (time to figure out just what I want).

No ppi
 

I have done some stupid things in my life but buying a 1987 Carrera with out a ppi and with out seeing the car has to be at the top of the list.

I purchased the car based on it a persons description and a photo. My car had been a true garage queen when I purchased it in 11/2003 with only 17,500 miles. It had been traded in at a BMW dealership in Las Vegas and the used car sales manager gave me a description of it.

The car was delivered to my home about a week later. I can say that I know how if must feel to get a "mail order bride". I can say that my trust in my fellow man was confirmed. Everything I was told was the truth. I was dealing with a fellow Pelican. Without this group's support and information I would probably be driving a Vette.

As of now I have put 26,000 miles on it with out any problems until last month when the valve guides had to be replaced. While the engine was out I had the valve springs replaced with stiffer ones, the rod bolts replaced, cams changed and a new clutch.

It make driving to work fun thank you to all Pelicans

What would the groups advice be in this situation:

I am looking at an '86 Coupe with under 30,000 miles. A PPI was doen by another prospective buyer and shared with me. I also was able to speak with the shop (P-dealer). Just minor issues, a slight leak in an oil return tube, recommended replacing belts due to age, recharge A/C. A leak-down test wasn't done.

The car is close enough that I can personally inspect and drive home. Based on extensive pictures, the car looks nearly new. Should I get my own independent PPI done, including a leak-down? Are there any other issues peculiar to a car that's 20 years old with such low mileage?

TIA,

CB

Even with low miles, at that age you may be looking at replacing rubber brake lines and CV boots that have weakened, cracked or lost resiliency. The bushings on the trailing arms could be flatenned and if it has been sitting for years at a time, the tire sidewalls could be permanently flexed and cracked. Find out how often it was taken out of storage and the longest time it sat in storage. With low miles like that, there is the chance of internal corrosion if it was stored long-term with any moisture in the crankcase. At the very least, you should change all the fluids, drain the gas out, swap all the filters and replace the tires if more than five years old. How it was stored makes a difference, too - heated garage? Outside under a cover? The oil return tube replacement is a few hundred dollars and I would definitely get a leak-down test. Forget the AC unless you are going to replace the lines - on that model year, it ain't that great when it works 100%, anyway.
Look for rust under the battery tray and check all the window rubber for cracks and splits. A PPI will cost you a couple hundred bucks; look at the one that has been done, get the leak-down test and check the car out thoroughly with another set of eyes. Sounds like it could be a good one, but verify for yourself. There will be some work to be done, updates to the shocks, tie rods, etc. Good model year, IMO.

Doh! No PPI. Didn't find this board until I was looking for Swepco after the purchase of Waynes book. I have replaced pedal bushings, shifter bushings, and old rotten wooden floorboard with aluminum. Found nice crease running down the bottom of the car (4 wheel drive?:confused: ) Odo gear replaced, repaired non-working sunroof, also have the birdnest under the 'clearance carpet' in the trunk. New seatbelts. 1st and 2nd dog teeth, synchros, and op sleeve (first engine drop). Paint or leakdown / compression test next. Wife allows this insanity and I wouldn't trade it. Will get one "next time", though. Cheers, Mike. SmileWavy

Oh yeah - on a drive with local Pelicans. One of them opened the airbox. Someone put the pop-off in backward, so they cut the air filter in half so the pop-off could open. Woo-Hoo!!:rolleyes:

Well, I did no PPI and ended up with several pounds of rust cut out of the car. Entire left side has been replaced...

I knew I was buying a project car but this kept me from sleeping in the first weeks of ownership.

Dennis

I'll raise my hand and admit to no PPI, but in my defense, I had never heard of a PPI prior to finding this board (almost immediately after buying the car I might add). I'd always bought brand new cars in the past.

With that said, it quickly became apparent that my car was, should we say, challenged". Right after I brought the car home from San Diego, purchased from a guy named Noly (I hope he sees this), I brought it to a repair shop near my house, Hergesheimer (who I still use, btw) so they could re-align the car since it had a nice steering shimmy and a pull to the right. As soon as their head mechanic, Jim, pulled open the trunk he said "this car's been in an accident". My heart sank and I said, "really, how do you know?". He pointed out a bent and slightly rusted hood hinge, poorly re-worked metal underneath the rubber seal that seals the hood in front, and an obviously replaced and poorly repainted hood. Damn.

This was after I foolishly believed the seller of the car when he said that it had been in no accidents. Um, OK. My bad.

Luckily for me the car aligned and corner balanced perfectly but I suspect that there is a slight twist to the tub because my left and right front ride heights are about 1/2" off with a perfect corner balance. It drives perfectly though so I'm lucky in that respect.

After that, the list just grew. A few months later I was nosing around and found major rust in and through the suspension pan and battery tray, probably due to a poor repair after the accident. The front bumper was absolute toast but the damage was well hidden under the rubber so that had to be replaced. Some jackass had reamed out the mounting holes to get the bumper to line up with the bumper shocks, which were a complete mess themselves. The same guy basically had welded the bumper shock directly to the mounting point, so the whole assembly had to be cut out and replaced by my repair shop. Anyway, two weeks and $2000 later all of that was made right by a very good body shop.

Next on the list was completely shot suspension. All of it. So that became my next project - a complete rebuild and upgrade top to bottom. A month in my garage, $2,500 or so, and a lot of learning and it was done.

Next on my list is an engine drop to rebuild the transmission, replace the clutch, and fix all of the myriad oil leaks. That'll happen this Fall or Winter.

But hey, at least she's been brought back to a good state of health by me and looks and drives great now. Hey, what's $14,000 for the purchase and another $7,000 or so pumped into it to make it right, with a few thousand more to go!? :rolleyes:

No PPI here either - at least not what I now know should be involved. However the PO did have the entire maintenance history. I also went with a buddy who is a mechanic - just not familiar with Porsches. I did pass on a '87 where he found electrical problems & bought my '86 instead. I've had to replace some minor wear & tear like tie rod ends & leaky flex lines to the front cooler. Oh & the AC barely worked - what a surprise.

Did not get a PPI on this latest acquisition...and I know better. But his mechanic is my mechanic so I felt comfortable that the car was looked after. I was also able to see and drive the car before buying it. I bought the car knowing it needed about a half dozen small things. My POST Purchase Inspection has revealed a few more, but nothing major. The bottom line is I expected to spend another $2-3k, and that's what I'm going to end up doing. Even with that, I feel good about my car purchase.

Somewhat reverse.
My 70 E Targa had a fairly loud transmission whine which the seller and I took into consideration for the price. (assuming about $2500 for a rebuild).

I switched the lube to Swepco and had an early 911 shop drive the car. They told me not to worry about it.

A few months and many miles later and the trans is quiet.

Otherwise, I did the PPI myself and no surprises.

didn't have ppi done. car had 70,000 miles. That was in Sept 06. I have oil leaks (I knew about), engine rebuild, bad cv joints. Will spend about 6K to repair it. Didn't pay too much for it, but have to spend about 2K more than I thought I would.


1983 911SC Targa:)

No PPI, no issues, nothing. 52,000 miles now, first check up was fine, now at 56,000.

Your results may vary.

no ppi here either. the seller was not the owner, rather the owners son in law, a chevy man who disliked imports and wanted his gariage spot back. knew absolutly nothing about these cars. when i went to see it, it actually had documentation that he had not mentioned. as in a complete engine and tranny rebuild 0 miles ago [but 7 years]... hmm this is funny... if i had a nice complete engine, why not drive it? to this day i dont know, the story i was told was that the owner is now in niceragua as a foriegn diplomat.
or it could be that all 4 brake calipers as well as the master cylinder were siezed, the coil was dead, the ignition system was dead, the spark plug wires wouldnt conduct, and the carbs were put together wrong. as in the floats were in UPSIDE DOWN! i just lost all my confidence in whoever did the rebuild....
good news is no rust [well, no bad rust] acceptable [if not origonal] paint, and what seems to be a mechanically okay engine. total investment at this point is still below 6k, so no complaints

This could also be in the "admit to your stupidity" thread.

No PPI for me. I bought the first car I drove, a very nice looking black '72 targa.
I looked at it (my beginner's version of "ppi") and went for a 15 minute drive with the owner. He was a nice guy, and had a very nice 993 parked right next to the '72.

So anyway, the punchline: I was very surprised when I found out the '72 air filter I bought at the auto parts would never fit on the '73.5 CIS engine that was actuallly in my car.

Since that wonderful day my voracious reading and a lot of time on this board has helped squelch my embarrassment. And even though the car has a few less-than-concours issues, it runs great.

don't feel bad
 

I have a 50/50 on PPIs protecting you. I just bought a Benz out of texas that was PPId and they missed a lot of stuff. WHat ya gonna do. My 74 that I had PPId and my 83 that I did not have about the same number of probs.
CONCLUSION_ It is who does the PPI that makes all the difference.

Me too. Viewed the car online, saw the bills and service history from day one then flew down and picked it up.

Not one surprise and have loved the car ever since. Course it was not this good with other cars, guess I just got lucky with this one.

joe A

Yhea I think that some people forget that anytime you buy a 20 year old car (which many people on here have 20 or better) there is possibly going to be hidden issues. If I had bought a 83 Honda Acord rather than a 83SC I could have had basically the same issues. EXCEPT for the rust issues on the Pre-galv cars a PPI is kind of 6 on 1 half a dozen on the other as far as I am concerend.

No PPI.
I saw it. I drove it. I bought it.

What it cost me:
Immediately after getting it home, I ended up having to buy a racing helmet and track tires. :D

Now the truth:
I've worked on lot's of old cars, including the king of rust - Fiats. So I really looked for rust. The SC that I bought had gone through a complete dismantle and rebuild of the whole car. It was solid and rust free. Plus, the guy who owned it used it exclusively as a track car - so it has bit**in suspension and brakes, plus race seats, cage, etc.

The only thing I noted was that the starter sounded "harsh". Like when you improperly shim an older GM starter. I thought, 'No big deal... I'll re-shim it when I get time.' (obviously, I didn't know that the 911 has no shims!)

On day 3, the starter drive gear jammed in the flywheel ring - shearing off most of the teeth, which all churned up nicely in the spinning clutch assy.

I went to the local Barnes and Noble and bought the first 911 book I could find that gave nice photos of the clutch replacement. It was Wayne's "101 Projects" book.

The rest is history.

Oh... and no other problems from the car.

I bought an '84 3.2 this spring sight unseen from the Philly area from this board's For Sale section. All I had were some good resolution digital pics and a very good conversation with the owner. I did not have a PPI and was not able to inspect it or drive it in person. So, I took a huge chance on what I was buying.

After 10 years around 911's, I knew what questions to ask and I also budgeted for major issues that could crop up like clutch replacement.

The deal was all done via phone and email. I wire transfered money (yes, to a complete stranger!!) after I got confirmation that the title was shipped to me via FedEx. I had Intercity pick the car up and drop it off at my door.

The car was exactly as described, but the only thing that was not disclosed (and I don't hold the PO accountable for this - it was just missed and that's how those things go) was a crushed oil line that kept the car from running at proper temp.

After a fresh clutch for $2000, some minor paint work and another $1500 in repairs including that oil line, she's an absolute peach to drive.

Again, it all came down to having 10 years of experience of owning and inspecting 911's and going with my gut that I could trust the owner that this car was as represented. A very risky purchase, but very well worth it.

However, I would never recommend a newbie around 911's to do this type of transaction (sight unseen, long distance buy).

Jay
My 911's

No PPI. No regrets. No surprises.

At this point I have purchased 3 Porsches, 1 with PPI (85 928S), 1 without (77 911 with 3.0) and 1 off ebay no PPI only pics (71 911T). The 928 PPI turned out OK, I didn't have to fix anything major on the car the time I had it. Non event......

The 77 I acquired was a total disaster. The owner was on Pelican so I had several long phone conversations with him and all seemed in order. All told......he lied to me about everything done to the car. The motor was supposed to be a fresh rebuild, as near as I can figure had about 80K miles on it. It had tensioner updates done, but the chain screamed when the car was running and the guides all had to be replaced. There were 3 different tires on the car, all 4 wheel bearings were junk, the entire heater assembly in the front of the car was missing, and the valves were so far out of adjustment I thought the lifters were loose. That is just what I can remember.

Financially none of those things affected me as I did all the repairs myself and I was into the car cheap enough. I then sold it for exactly what I had into it. However if I had a PPI on that car I would have passed on it.

The 71 was the total opposite; I found it on Ebay and a Pelican member owned it. Everything on the car was exactly as he said it would be. Rebuilt motor, rust free body, no interior and needs a restore. No surprises! I just finished the car and I love it. The former owner has another 911 and I occasionally trade emails with him still. Great guy.

If I can see the car in person I won't pay for a PPI as I pretty much do one myself. When it is long distance and of significant value I will probably have one done. If I am just buying a parts car or project car long distance I don't see the value.

No PPI either. Took my chances that if a man buys his Carrera new in 1985 and keeps it til 2006, he must have taken care of it. Bought it off eBay, came from Texas with 113k miles. Big roll of the dice, good payoff.

The Bad: 915 synchros shot on 1&2, PS headlight ring bent, mismatched F&R tires, cracked steering wheel leather (then glued on), bad stereo, nickel sized chip in windshield, sun-faded seats, DS window regulator needs to be fixed, PS washer squirter clogged.

The Good: No rust, never crashed, paint is good, good compression, top end @ 93k with receipts, everything option that's on the window sticker is still on the car (except for the Digital Monterey), AC blows cold, everything else other than above works.

All in all, the pros outweight the cons tenfold. Plus its got that 80's pimp style that you either love or you hate. Its my second maroon 911.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1163141321.jpg