You didn't get a PPI? So what "surprises" did you find after the fact?

[cantdrv55]

Stupid me didn't get a PPI before I bought my SC. I found Pelican before buying the car and read a lot of threads about what to look for yet I didn't heed the most popular advice to PPI.

What did it cost me? The PO said the clutch pedal was stiff because the car has a new rubber centered clutch. After 10K miles of my ownership, I discovered the cause to be a worn out, semi-seized up pilot bearing. Many hours of labor plus parts.

I've also got a rat's nest of aftermarket wiring behind and under the dash. Who knows where all that stuff goes.

Yup, should've PPI'd. Oh well, now the car runs great! Just have to sort out the spaghetti.

Any lessons learned out there?

[livi]

Did exactly the same. Read up and prepared. Set on a PPI. Then one day there she was. Just lovely. Bought her right there. No PPI.

Fortunately no surprises.

So far...

[cbeers]

Boy I'll say!!

The car pulls to redline like nobody's business!


Oh, you mean BAD things


Well, I too did not get a PPI on this car. I had PPIs done on some others and passed. Money well spent I think.

The car I bought was listed here on Pelican with a lot of feedback, a review posted by another Pelican and a dyno run. last thing I wanted was a red targa, but as soon as I rounded the corner and saw it, I knew right then and there I was buying it.

About the only things not up to the listing ad:
It said Bilsteins, well they were only on the back. Fixed now.
No mention of a failing starter, but it's there. About once a month it shrieks in protest.
Ad said targa top was just recovered. No way. It sure needs it now though!



-Chris

[slodave]

I did not have a PPI. The car was my fathers I already knew what I was getting.

Dave

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally posted by cantdrv55

Any lessons learned out there?

Several lessons.

Best lesson I learned is that small size, distance pics are a car's best friend on eBay, and your worst enemy. if you are buying a car long distance, get detailed pics of areas you want to see, or of course have a fellow Pelican check it out. Bought a 71T on eBay out of Texas... cars don't rust in Texas I thought having lived there once. Car looked great in 20 shots in the ad. Asked owner lots of questions on email and over the phone on rust since he had put in a new front pan. He said not to worry about the rear longitudinals, floors, rockers, etc., they were all fine..."won't need to touch them for years on the East Coast." So trusting him, and seeing all the great pics, I won the auction for $3200 or so. $750 to get it up here. It arrives while I'm on business out in the Bay Area. I get back and that leads me to my second lesson.

When it arrives, don't just mildly check it out, REALLY check it out. Well, the car ran and drove fine and it looked pretty decent, but both front fenders were junk, all rusted bubbled up under blue paint that you couldn't see in the pics. he also pulled the pockets out of the car before shipping it. Being busy I parked it for a few weeks. getting back to it, tearing it apart for a track project, I found terminal rust pretty quickly. No, I wouldn't need to worry about the longitudinals, because they didn't actually exist!

bad floors, bad front pan repair job, bad rockers, etc. Ended up parting it out for well over the $4k I bought it for, but it certainly didn't cover my labor or frustration, and it really set me back in building a project.

The owner...no emails or calls returned.

[cantdrv55]

Yow, expensive lessons learned Shaun!

[Dixie]

I didn't get a PPI. After 20+ years of messin' with cars, I felt I could spot a solid candidate. Everything checked out well to my eye...

I was right. Two years later and the cars as solid as I thought. I'll admit no PPI was a move I usually do not perform. There's nothing like a second opinion. No matter how good you think you are.

[jkarolyi]

Some cars are such good deals that they will be gone before you get a PPI. It's really hard to buy a 73 & older 911 these days in nice shape for a reasonable price unless you buy it instantly.

That said I would NOT even buy a killer deal 911 without a PPI if I didn't know much about 911s. Having bought and sold quite a few of these cars, I know what to look for in terms of body rot and telltale signs of a heap. I don't get PPIs anymore, but I never buy a car except in person, and then only after I do what I call a "DIY PPI".

Jay's DIY PPI for a 73 & older 911:

1. Check that VIN numbers match on hood latch panel, by smugglers box, windshield post, doorjamb sticker (if it's there), and most importantly the title!

2. Look for rust by torsion tubes, front torsion bar mounts, battery trays, rocker panels, floorpans, fender bottoms...basically all the nooks and crannies in the car too. This takes experience to find all the places to look.

3. Make sure the car has enough power, and is smooth running shifting, has tight suspension and steering. Experience is necessary here too.

4. Look for ripples and bondo in the body and other evidence of accident damage. Again with the experience.

5. Do a compression check on the spot. Not as telling as a leakdown, but if you get good even compression on all cylinders you can be pretty sure that the leakdown is OK.

Like I said though...unless you have the experience, a PPI is the ideal way to go.

[84porsche]

You should see my notes when I bought my car.
1) "Just look for oil leaks."

No PPI either. Didn't know a thing about Porsches, didn't know what a PPI was, still really haven't seen one or know what to look for and to top it off I didn't really know how to drive a stickshift. You are probably going to laugh but I read this and was able to bring the car home. The next couple of weeks was a learning experience. Every night I went over to the local hills in first gear and practiced getting through the gears without stalling or rolling back.

The surprises I found.

1) Interior pieces broken
2) Transmission bushings bad
3) Oil leak from tank to thermostat that slowly started to get worse.
4) Replacement wiring stereo wiring under dash is a mess.
5) That this is the best investment I have ever made and so much fun in the caliber of people I have met (fellow Pelicans) and financially I still have not lost money on my car.

That's it, other than that the car has treated me with just as much love as I give her.

[Super_Dave_D]

No PPI - Bought mine from a REAL nice guy/dealer in Texas, that I trusted, before I found this board. A huge mistake. 4k later I'm close to sorting it out. Just another 4-5k for the valve guide issue and I'll be set. What a way to learn a lesson. In fact - what better of a way to learn about your car than replace/rebuild everything!! At least I have a good attitude about it - one day I'll be Victorious!!!

[Brad01mc]

Yup, no PPI and I had issues.

Bent tub being the big one. $3K estimate repair.

The good news is that I think the engine has been rebuilt (~210K miles) because it pulls too strong and sound too good for something with those kind of miles.

Also have a couple of reciepts for a rebuilt tranny, diff, new oil seals all around, starter and Alt. all at 200K miles! Bills come to about $6000. It also has the oil fed tensioners, doesn't smoke, new bil's at each corner and factory Fuch's (16's).

I paid $9900 for a '78 SC (11/05), so with all said and (not) done (yet!) I don't think I'm too bad off.

I would definately get a PPI the next time, but it's kinda nice to know that I'm saving something that someone else might have thrown away. It also feels good to know that everytime I work on it...it gets better!

Brad

[jdm61]

Originally posted by Super_Dave_D
No PPI - Bought mine from a REAL nice guy/dealer in Texas, that I trusted, before I found this board. A huge mistake. 4k later I'm close to sorting it out. Just another 4-5k for the valve guide issue and I'll be set. What a way to learn a lesson. In fact - what better of a way to learn about your car than replace/rebuild everything!! At least I have a good attitude about it - one day I'll be Victorious!!!

Interesting. I was thinking about buying a car from the SOMEWHERE in the Lone Star State a little while back before i joined the forum and read up on thangs, but something made me nervous. No idea what made me hesitant, but I guess that I was Victorious.......lol If you read Excellence this month, you will notice a certain ad......hmmmmm

[Super_Dave_D]

Originally posted by jdm61
Interesting. I was thinking about buying a car from the SOMEWHERE in the Lone Star State a little while back before i joined the forum and read up on thangs, but something made me nervous. No idea what made me hesitant, but I guess that I was Victorious.......lol If you read Excellence this month, you will notice a certain ad......hmmmmm

That was the best hunch you ever had!!!!

[MOMO3.2]

I did not get a PPI done on my 1987 Carrera because I purchased it from a friend who had a PPI done before he purchased the car a year or so earlier. My friend had a brand new clutch installed, new oil lines, A/C repairs, sway bar mount repair, and engine insulation mat replaced (He decided he wanted a 993). The car also came with a butt load of service and repair records from new.

I would not have sought to purchase this particular car, either, but it was a known quantity and the pricing was very generous. I used it as a daily driver for 3 years without spending a dime over normal services (All completed by yours truly thanks to Wayne and this board).

The only time I really held my breath on the purchase was when I brought my car to TRE to have it aligned and balanced after I upgraded and refreshed the suspension. I knew it had been in some accidents even though it has a totally clean CARFAX and all the vin stickers are in place. I was ecstatic when TRE said my car is as straight as an arrow and was easily put into spec for the alignment/corner balance--whew!

In my case, I figure I have been one lucky/happy pup.

Mike

[anthony]

I think the key is knowing the model and what potentially could be wrong. Like with SCs, it's pretty much manditory these days to pull the valve covers and check for broken head studs.

[Oh Haha]

No PPI, either. Heck, I didn't even drive it until we met at the bank to make the deal. I had no clue what I was getting into. I just knew I wanted this 911. With the exception of me beating the crap out of second gear powershifting the first two years, the car has been reliable with no problems that I didn't create myself. I was, however, disappointed in the power of the car. My previous hot rod was a 13 second 6speed Z28. I have since learned the valuable lesson that speed is not just the quarter mile or smoky burnouts. Holy Crap, I think I grew up since buying it!

[Dan in Pasadena]

Posted a thread on this before but, the short answer is one of the PO's had installed an ordinary toilet flapper valve in the CIS airbox to function as a popoff valve. I don't know why he thought that would work, but it obviously did not and he ended up epoxying it shut. When the car backfired on me it blew the airbox which is when I found that little classic condition!

[sballard]

I bought my 1972 911T off ebay with no PPI. I bought the usual books about longhoods so I knew what models to avoid and such but I realize now how naive I was. I've learned so much more since I've been following this forum. I could have been screwed royally but in hindsight I made out OK. The things I missed were:

Rusty front suspension pan. Honestly it look good! I should have brought an ice pick with me. (repair awaiting completion of my garage)

New stainless exchangers, which I though were a plus, were incorrect for the model and didn't have the port for the MFI thermostat. The PO had the mixture set extra lean to compensate for the constant enrichment. I had the port welded in, connected the hose to the thermostat, and dialed the mixture in by trial and error to where it is very drivable. Again I am waiting garage completion before I can formally go through the formal MFI adjustments.

Heater flapper boxes were completely rusted. Welded in new ones.

Dash gauges were not grounded! Easy fix but it took me about a week to suss out all of the bizzare symptoms.

Leaking oil filter console. Took me a while to figure it out but it was a relatively easy fix. Talk about smoke!

Broken nut on a major oil line. Bought a replacement line (ouch!).

Despite all of this, the car is solid, most critical areas have little or no rust, and it runs like hell. Glad I bought the car and the price was about right in hindsight.

But I coulda be screwed bigtime.

Steve B.

[Craig 930 RS]

[Rob Channell]

1979 911SC bought in 1989 with no PPI. ~100,000 miles

Needed 4 shocks. I had guessed 2.
Had a bent front A-arm. Replaced when upgraded suspension.
Needed new oil cooler. ouch. found used in Pano for $150 and learned to drop the engine myself.
Needed a new engine a year or so later. Bad leakdown on one cylinder. Replaced bad SC motor with a used Carrera motor.
Rear torsion bars were rusted to the spring plates. To this day I still have a spring plate with a rusted torsion bar stub somewhere in my mix.
All in all probably cost me at least $7500.

At least I got a great deal on the car at $14000. (insert sarcasm here) Good thing I bought this one instead of the beautiful, perfect, low miles, one owner 1983 with all the books and records for a whopping $18000. Penny wise, pound foolish.

The upside is that I learned a lot about my car and every time something broke, I installed something better if I was able. It should be done in another decade or so.......In the meantime I'll just drive it and enjoy it.