Driving a 964 vs Carrera/SC. Significant difference ?

[livi]

Contemplating a possible step up in Porsche evolution. Read up on all the potential pit falls with the different 964 year models.

Looking specifically for personal experience with the two models and how they differ driving wise. Is the 964 simply more quite, comfortable, faster and more stable at high speed ? Or is the differences rather small ? Is the G64 gear box that much better than my, actually rather smooth, 915 ?

I am looking for subjectivity - not hard fact.

This so called step up (maybe its a step down) will not involve me selling my Carrera. She will stay with me till death do us part.

[javadog]

Huge difference. The change from one car to the next was the biggest single step in 911 evolution.

The 964 feels like a modern car. The gearbox shifts completely differently, the A/C actually works, the suspension and steering are vastly different.

If you buy one, I recommend a '93 or '94.

JR

[livi]

Thanks JR (Ewing ?)

You mention the suspension and steering. I know the difference hard fact wise, but could you possibly elaborate on the seat of the pants feeling ? You say modern car. In certain aspects that could be negative also (for a Porsche aficionado). Does it mute the 'Porsche driving experience' ?

[JeremyD]

964 is a great car - more powerful, smoother - shifts smoother - you really sit more "on the floor" than the carreras. shorter shifter. It has power steering that makes it much easier to handle at parking lot speeds. Base brakes are better - especially with the 92 on up (4 pot rears)

The 964 get's you into arrest me now speeds VERY qucikly. I think 60-120 was almost as quick to come as 0-60 in my Carrera.

AC actually worked, controls were actually a little intuitive. The spoiler coming up and retracting was always a highlight with the kids

I still miss my c2 targa...

[javadog]

Nope, not that JR.

It's hard to put into words, but I'll try. Have you ever driven a later (post '84) 928? It's similar in some ways.

The steering still has feel, but it's power assisted and suffers from less kick-back. The car rides over bumps less harshly. The synchros in the gearbox are of a different design, so the shift travel is much shorter and lighter. The brakes are more powerful and have ABS, so you can stop a lot harder with less skill, especially on undulating roads. The car is heavier and quieter, so it feels more refined. The A/C and heating system is integrated and works well. The stereo systems sound better.

You have to really drive one, whether you buy one or not. I think you'll like it, especially if you use it daily.

JR

[Jim Richards]

I test drove four or five 964's a few years back, including an RS America. I'll second (or third) what's been said before. I really liked the 964 and think it would make a great daily driver. I sometimes regretted buying a 993 over a 964. The 993 has better looks, but I like the 964's 5-speed better. The RSA felt more lively than the regular 964's. I'll bet the C4 would be great for winter driving in Sweden.

[livi]

Thanks guys, great input !

As of 'hard facts' that kind of put me off, its obviously more difficult to maintain myself. Just recently managed my own DIY big service on my Carrera including valve adjustment. Feeling very good about it, not least from a financial point of view. The 964 will not be that easy I suppose.

[stlrj]

But then a valve adjustment on a 911 should last at least 3-5years or more.


Cheers,

Joe
86 3.2

[Jim Richards]

Surprisingly, it's not much harder than your Carrera. Based on my experience with my old 993, you should figure on a 964 being no more than 20% more difficult to DiY than your Carrera, unless you buy a C4. The C4 probably adds a bit more complexity; though I have no first hand experience working on them.

[turbo6bar]

The later 964s aren't easy to find, but I have seen nice early models up at very attractive prices. Would you guys consider a 90 model, presuming it has no issues, or is the 93/94 the hot ticket?
jurgen

[SLO-BOB]

Originally posted by Jim Richards
The 993 has better looks

Funny- I bought my 964 because I prefer the classic of the last of the 911 bodystyle cars.

Different strokes...

On the 964 vs earlier cars-all that has been said above and more! "Bigger, better, faster, more" as they say. However, you should really drive one first because as they made improvements they reduced the classic 911 feel. It's still there, but dampened.

My impressions-

Better ride. Even better ride, which sounds stupid considering what we're talking about, but it's still nice to have. Might be a little softer than you're used to but that's easily cured with the typical suspension upgrades.

Handling. I've been told that Porsche dialed in more understeer on the 964s. To me it still feels balanced with a slight bias to understeer which can easily change to oversteer-just like the Carreras and SCs. I won't say it handles better, but it's certainly not worse. I'll know more once I get it to the track.

Heavier. You can feel it, but fortunately it has better brakes and more power to more than make up for the added weight.

Quieter. Highway driving is a pleasure. This may be due to simply having newer seals. Not sure.

Speedier. Due to more power and quiet, you get to scary fast speeds before you know it. My first week of ownership found me blithely cruising along at 100mph on occasion. Good thing the car has cruise! I use it often.

Colder A/C. As I get older I get more finicky. If this keeps up I'll be driving a Buick soon! However, it's sooooo nice to have decent A/C. On 90 degree days I'll be cool as a cucumber in my 964. In the past my 911s had a small window of weather opportunity; 40-80 degrees. Now I can drive all the time.


Before I bought my 964 I wanted a 911 with coil overs, 3.6 motor, G50, and wider rubber. Like many, I considered upgrading a longhood, Carrera or Sc. However, once I added up the cost, it became apparent that it was much easier and cheaper to just buy the 964. I simply decided to let the Porsche factory due the hotrodding for me.

I would buy a well maintained 90 before buying a poorly maintained 94. That said, look for the newest one you can find. I've been told that 94s were not available in Europe, so your target car is a 92 or 93. Someone above said 93 or 94-not sure why other than the distributor vent kit which is easy to add.

[Pete000]

I have owned 78 SC, 84 Carrera Cab, 87 Carrera Coupe, and now a 91 C2 and the C2 is a big improvement. The 3.6 has more power, the coil over suspension works much better too. Large oil cooler with fan. The car is just more refined. When they were new they were over 65 grand ! I feel the 964 are a great bargin these days and are greatly under appreciated. I think this will change in time.

I love all 911's but the 964 seems to be the most developed of the old school 911's. I want to put the rear end, vario ram, and 6 speed from a 993 in a 964 ! talk about a sleeper.

[Jim Richards]

Originally posted by SLO-BOB


Funny- I bought my 964 because I prefer the classic of the last of the 911 bodystyle cars.

Different strokes...

Hehehe...very subjective. We are comparing supermodels, after all.

[safe]

Markus, I think a local PCS member in Kalmar has a 964 RS touring for sale. Its black, black leather and black cup wheels. A real mean looking car!!
So if you have 350-400k of swedish kronor burning a hole in your pocket...

[livi]

Right Magnus, a black 964 RS. That would be an absolute dream machine. Tough as they come. About as tough as forking up 3-4 hundred grand..

I have two material goals in my life: owning my own garage and a RS model to put in it.

[aigel]

I started out looking at a 964. It was a bit sluggish and felt heavy, compared to the SC. The 5 speed had some real long gears which did not help either. I actually made an offer, but it was way low, so it did not go through.

Once I drove my (admittedly hopped up) 993, I knew there was no way back to a 964, regardless of the higher price tag. My prediction is that hte 993 will hold it's value better ...

George

[Bill Verburg]

MO? Skip the 964, go for 993. The ROW come w/ g50/21. the lower closer gearing transforms the car, most US owners can't imagine the difference.

A 964RS would be my second choice though