The tale of 2 911-Ts

[jkap]

Originally posted by pwd72s
Be nice to kitties guys, it's a karma thing...

Yeah, especially that one....she is old and has been on fire! ........ twice!

Originally posted by quaz
In the cats defense it only weights about 3 OZs. That cat is 99% fur. I am convinced if you shaved it you would find a hamster.

I love a good shaved cat .

Great stories guys.

[Tspringer]

This is very off topic but I thought you might find it interesting.


That picture you posted of you guys sitting right outside the giant cathedral in Koeln, Germany....

I have a video of film shot by US Army combat photographers in early 1945 that was shot from the front of the cathedral pretty much right behind where you guys were sitting. The film is of a German Panzer Mk V "Panther" sitting at the intersection beside the Cathedral firing at US forces. This is in front of you and to your right as you face the cathedral outside the frame of your photo but within easy sight distance of where you were sitting. Less than 100 yards.

This German Panther tank gets off several shots from its 75mm cannon, each shot severly jarring the camera man. (the tank was not firing at the camera man or the troops he was with, but firing at unknown targets behind them) The Panther then takes an anti-tank round to the side armor which penetrates. The tank commander is thrown out and his body does not move again. The tank driver crawls out the front hatch, slides off the tank and scurries away as you can see machine gun rounds impacting around him. Just as he gets clear, the entire tank brews up as ammunition stores begin to cook off. The tank loader and gunner didnt get out. The film clip ends as the cameraman gets shots of the burning tank and then pans the camera up to view the spires of the cathedral right overhead.

I dont know if you were aware of the intense combat that took place all around where you guys were sitting, but I thought you might find that story interesting!

[jkap]

Originally posted by Tspringer
I dont know if you were aware of the intense combat that took place all around where you guys were sitting, but I thought you might find that story interesting!

I am a part-time, amateur historian in my increasingly scarce spare time, so yes, I did know this THe exactl spot was about 70 yards from where we were sitting, in the direction you describe. I have heard about the video you describe, but have never seen it, though I do have numerous pictures.

Very interesting place to visit though, I highly recommend it. Just don't expect much other history in that city, we pretty much destroyed everything except the Koelner Dom.

[quaz]

Hey not to get back on topic here, but I wanted to toss up a couple of pics. One was of my interior just because.........I took out the material on the dash and replaced it with sheets of real carbon fiber. Looks nice and doesn't detract from the original look of the interior. The RS door panels are carbon fiber pattern, but I am considering just ordering more carbon fiber and replacing them with the real deal.


This second pic is of something Jay and I have been kicking around. It is a grill for the engine, but made out of mesh. It has a frame welded on, mounts to the original holes with normal hardware and has the contour of the stock grill. I think Jay is working on another one with a slightly different mesh.....something we can either chrome or powder coat black. Something different I guess.

[gduke]

Great job guy's. Do you have any close-ups of the carbon fibre door pannels?

Gary

[quaz]

These are the door panels I have. I got them from appbiz, but our host carries them as well. Overall they are decent, but for the look of my car I think I am going to find some real carbon fiber and remake them out of that.

[gduke]

Originally posted by quaz
These are the door panels I have. I got them from appbiz, but our host carries them as well. Overall they are decent, but for the look of my car I think I am going to find some real carbon fiber and remake them out of that.

I have RS door panels and been thinking of upgrading to leather. My dash is leather and looks brand new. I finished my upgrades last year and haven't spent any money in a while. So, leather door panels would look nice w/ the leather dash.

Thanks for the pic. and look foreword to seeing pics of the real carbon fiber.

Gary

[Wrecked944]

Just had to revive this thread because it rocks so damned hard. What a great story! Thanks for sharing it.

[notfarnow]

Originally posted by JanusCole
Just had to revive this thread because it rocks so damned hard. What a great story! Thanks for sharing it.

+1

One of my favorite threads this year. It's the enthusaiam in threads like this that makes me antsy for a 911.

RCCALE's transmission rebuild was another favorite

[Dadofour]

What a wonderful way to spend an afternoon on my Christmas vacation.

When are you guys going to bite the bullet and go RS or RSR?

[Ed scuba]

Hey Than. This could be our future! Thanks for all the details guys. You both have a flair for writing, fantastic cars (for now), a great friendship and even better wifes to let you get away with all this.

[quaz]

OK since I am not accomplishing anything productive today anyway, I will chime in here. Jay and I gave a great amount of thought to the look we both wanted and to say we usually go away from the norm would be an understatement. With the exception of a few pieces of trim and some decals here and there the exterior of the cars are done. As for the motivation that should be an update for the end of next summer if all goes well. We have something evil planned for at least one of the two cars. I will say no more for fear of eternal persecution from Jay.

For a quick update, shortly after the finished pics were taken of both cars neither of them saw much of the road. It was one part the heavens opened up on south eastern Wisconsin and dumped about 200" of rain between the end of August and November. So that didn't cooperate. Then one part Jay attempting to lower the front of his car to match the ride hieght in the rear, only to find out the front pan was no longer metal. It looked perfect, but inspection with a screwdriver revealed it was only undercoating and rust holding hands. So the front pan of the car is apart right now waiting for time and motivation......mostly time. Then one part my car is waiting for new rear shocks because I was not happy with the valving of the new shocks I put in. I think that sums it up.

For the rest of the winter we are both busy with work and other projects so I don't see much happening else until spring.

Now as for an RS or RSR, neither of these cars will go that route. However that doesn't stop me from wanting one in the form of another car.

[Slow911]

Great write-up...hopefully I'll be seeing you guys somewhere this summer. Very very impressed with your work and the way you seem to take any and all problems in stride.
can't wait for the updates

Brian

[jkap]

Testing, testing one, two ..... Is this thing on???

[onlycafe]

updates please.

[jkap]

First off, fair warning…. In all likelihood, this will end up being like those annoying television networks that take your favorite show and then give you some ridiculously small number of new episodes…..like 6 when you expect a full 20….. Also, these new episodes are not officially sanctioned by Kevin. They are more of a way to kick him in the ass on his current project Though I am fairly sure he will chime in.....

For those new to the thread….welcome, you have officially entered what should probably be referred to as “Jay and Kevin’s Joint Therapy Session.” Here is what you have missed (though I highly recommend reading, or re-reading the first several pages, I just re-read it and am amazed by our mutual instanity…)

First, a brief summary of our adventure so far…..

1974…two kids are born, one seems immediately to have an unhealthy fascination with ’69-73 Porsche 911s. The other is born either very brave or too stupid to have fear (the jury is still out on that one….).

1985….these same two kids meet (essentially at band camp…LOL) and become best friends.

Over the years they have many automotive adventures together., but none so grand as their 911Ts. The road to 911 ownership was winding. Starting at 16 years old, it went something like this…..

One friend convinced the other that VWs are good, fun cars. One convinced the other they should both buy Mustangs.....(wait, that really doesn't fit here. Although I think Kevin's Mustang still holds his record for most traffic citations... but I digress). Anyway, One foolishly bought a VW Corrado; the other’s wife loves Corrados so bought one too. One became convinced that since he was not financially or emotionally scarred by Corrado ownership that he should sell it and buy a 928…..and he did. The other friend felt lonely for not having a Porsche too so, using similar logic, he sold his Wife’s Corrado and bought an early 911 (enter the first POS). Early 911 disease quickly became contagious leading the other friend to buy an early “911” (though being inherently cheap he chose to buy what we affectionately refer to as the 911 "kit," enter the second 911 POS). Soon both friends were each flirting with “second porsches,” but finally they sold them and committed to just the early POSes. One friend decided to flare his fenders and paint his 911. The other friend was "gently" made to realize that his 911 too was a POS and thus was pushed into flaring and painting his 911 as well (after all, he only had his vision of what an early 911 should look like since brith!). A summer goes by, both cars get painted and…………

[jkap]

They sit largely unchanged for the better part of 3 years. Except for a few interesting tales, frustrations heartaches, and one fairly large project that may result in the yellow car tripling its mileage in just one summer (btw, that is not nearly as hard as it sounds!)…….

Interesting facts about the owners/cars:

Both cars were painted in a barn (one twice)

The fenders on the Orange car don’t match, the driver’s side is an SC flare, the passenger a Carrera flare…..this annoys the owner to no end, though no-one else notices or seems to care….

The orange car has mosquito legs permanently in the clear coat on the roof (plainly visible on sunny days if you know what you are looking for) Both friends find this simultaneously hilarious and a point of pride (evidence of barn paint that is otherwise not believable to many…)

One friend (Jay) prefers to have his car drivable at all times, the other friend (Kevin) apparently is either afraid to have his car drivable, or has no interest in actually driving it!

Both friends have high aspirations for their cars, but also suffer from auto/home/life ADD often leading to years of inactivity…..

The orange car has only lived in NY and WI (NY for 30 of its 40 years). The yellow car lived in CA, NJ, and WI (CA for 30 of its 40 years, oh and essentially no miles in NJ or WI). Yet the yellow one had wayyyyyyyy more rust than the orange one. What can we learn from this?? Early 911s will rust anywhere, anytime and for any reason.....buyers beware....

Kevin, chime in with some more, oh and get the new episodes started will you please? I'm not sure where to start.....

[quaz]

Fine whatever, if it makes me get motivated then I will start writing and add a few pictures tonight.

The issue here was after my car was back together I needed to get it running. So I took it to our local P-car guru and said perform your black magic on the carbs and dizzy. The car still kinda has the original 2.2T with the Zeniths and Marelli. $2K later I get the car back and it runs like crap. The carbs were rebuilt and the points replaced and set. Everything was rebuilt back to stock and set to factory settings. Obviously from sitting around for so long enough body shop dust settled everywhere to just make it run like poop. The prescribed medicine from the mechanic was to drive it like I hate it until it runs better. So I attempted to do this. As old fuel was replaced with new fuel and carbon was knocked off valves it ran better and better, but was still not right. But why?

Back up a little here. Before I got the car the 2.2T motor was rebuilt and essentially had zero miles on it. I have a pile of receipts from this rebuild as documentation of what was done. So as I was trying to figure out why it wasn't running right and I started to look at the build. It looks like the bottom end was left stock, honed and ringed. The top end is a bit of a mystery. The receipt says regrind valves, deck heads and port to "customer specifications". Then here is where it gets really weird, a receipt from webcam which states cams refinished to "customer specs" again. ?????????? Without disassembly I have no clue what is done to the heads. Could be stock, could be higher compression and E cams........I will find out some day, just not now.

So back to the car and running like poop. Remember I said the mechanic set everything back to stock? He set the base dizzy back to stock timing. Before I took the car to him I made a mark on the dizzy on where the timing was. This is where the PO or presumably the engine builder set the timing. I looked in the car and the timing was now retarded by at least 10 degrees. ??????WTF Well someone knew what they were doing. I put it back to the mark and then turned the key to the car. Bam! Different car, holy crap. All of a sudden this car came to life. It pulled to past 7K no problem and felt very strong. The low end was a bit weak, but if I retarded the timing by even a few degrees the car would knock past 5K and not rev beyond 6500. Fine I can live with a weak low end if it pulls like that at the top. Wow!

So then life takes a turn for the interesting and my wife decides she likes girls better than guys. Suddenly my car is pretty much the last thing on my mind and it goes back to it's natural state of sitting and sitting and sitting as I work with lawyers to try and keep it. After 6 months of giving up everything in my life of any value I am left with the 911 and nothing else. Works for me….. I had to move, get all new furniture, try to maintain sanity and put my life back together. However I had nothing but time to work on my 911 now right? Wrong! New house needed work, new girlfriend, still working on my masters and now I was teaching part time at night. No time for 911, but I occasionally got it out on nights.

Lots more time passes and over time every time I take the car out it runs worse and worse. Since I no longer live where I can get gas without ethanol in it, the car is doing a lot of sitting with ethanol in the carbs and they probably need a retune or there is a vacuum leak. The dizzy is having problem with the advance and the cap and rotor really could be changed. They are getting worn. So what are my options. Take the car back to the Zenith whisperer for another 2K? Get PMOs and a Bosch dizzy/updated ignition for 4-5K? Don't know………Whatever I do I don't have a lot of time to work on it.

The problem boils down to this. I need something that was built to take ethanol sitting in it. I need an ignition with a different curve than the original Marelli. Last but not least I would like something I can work on myself. I don't have anything against carbs and I realize many people like the simplicity of them. However, I am a computer engineer and I work on very complex data problems. To me I am at home with a car that has an interface port and I can pull data out to Excel and analyze it. Can't and will never be able to do that with carbs and points. Best I could do is maybe put a wideband O2 on it and pull some mixture numbers. Still won't help much. So I am leaning towards EFI and electronic ignition.

If I go EFI what do I do? I looked at Tony's kit and putting on a later model manifold, but that alone had it's issues. PMO just came out with their ITBs, but it was bit pricey. There are a couple of other ITB options, but if you actually add up everything you need to properly do EFI you get up to $3-4K before you even add ITBs. If you don't do the ignition it is cheaper, but I need to do the ignition as well. It is all or nothing.

All along I have been bantering back and forth with Jay on what to do. There is a strong argument just to take the car back to the Zenith god and let him sacrifice another chicken behind the car and get them working again. Putting on PMOs would fix that problem, but the ignition. The 2.2 case is a bastard because the opening for the dizzy is smaller and I can't just get a Bosch unit off Ebay and pop it in there. More to the point, to do it correctly I would have to get the shaft machined and get it recurved to match whatever the hell is done to my motor. There is a can of worms there I was not sure I wanted to open up. With EFI I can change everything and tune it to whatever is in there. When I change out the motor (some day), nothing will be wasted and I can just retune for the different displacement and ignition. Seems like the way to go for me. Megasquirt seems to have a good following and you can pick up Ford EDIS parts cheap anywhere. So what about the ITBs? I really don't have $6K to drop on this project and want to get started. I wanted to keep the total budget to under $3K, but how?

Then I see this thread Project ITBs: Part 1-parts arrive and get thinking. Off to Ebay I go!

[jkap]

Originally Posted by quaz

Off to Ebay I go!

eBay.........simultaneously Kevin's greatest ally, and most troublesome enemy!