Fabspeed Discrepancy

[Spin City]

Has anyone else noticed that Fabspeed mufflers (at least the singe in/single out for 3.2 Carrerra) are not stainless steel as advertised?

I just spent $1500 for Fabspeed exhaust parts and nothing except the "cat bypass" fit. Furthermore, I put the muffler in the pack of my truck while I figure out what to do with it. In the meantime, it rained and now I have a trail of rust originating at a deep scratch in the body of the muffler.

I expect to pay a premium for quality, but at the same time, I expect that quality to be there when it's advertised.

The box says "Made in the USA". It that part at least true?

[David]

There's been a lot of speculation about the made in USA claim. I don't think it's been fully answered. I believe there was a large post on the subject on Rennlist.

[ruf-porsche]

Originally posted by Spin City


The box says "Made in the USA". It that part at least true?

Well the "BOX" was probably made in the USA, who know where the muffler was made.

[unclebilly]

If it is made correctly, it is made from 400 series stainless (you don't want 300 series for heat applications). 400 series will rust slightly as it is ~15% chrome and the balance iron and a few other things like moly etc. 300 series is ~20% chrome and the balance nickle and some other things. Check it iwth a magnet - 400 series are ferritic so a magnet will stick.

[chuckr]

Do a search under my name... I posted abut this two years ago !
After many requests to Joe @ Fabspeed NOTHING got resolved
I wound up paying my mechanic to cut and re-weld the flanges
on the muffler so it would fit up with the euro pre-muff !
It cost me about $2.000.00 with the install/repair and buying
the exhaust . All said and done... it does look good and
sound is fantastic !
Chuck

[tsuter]

Stainless steel is not chrome......common misconception. Just put on chrome tips...it'll look fine.

[charleskieffner]

rumours abound here in phx. (home of b&b and ghl) that fabspeed is producing offshore. i almost went with fabspeed, but at last moment decided on GHL. why? cuz i dont have to pay freight either way if i have a problem. because of the rumours i heard regarding customer service, and i cant stand billy boat due to nefarious business dealings in the past with him(in person involving machine tools). billy boy was not even in for consideration. b.boats little guy napoleonic "im better than everybody" attitude is something i really dont subscribe to. if hes so good why doesnt the sawed off twerp got an indy ride anymore? now hes relegated to go-karts and yelling at kids half his age!

anyway went with GHL and have been happy as hell with them. great guys, great quality, and really cant say enough good about them. i call them the way i see them, im not politically correct and i really dont care!

your problem is exactly what i read about with fabspeed and b&b. poor quality work, real piss poor customer service.

our motto...........we dont give a ***** how much it costs...........as long as its done RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

doing things to your car to make it better will always cost money. its just doing it 2 and 3 times to make it right that sucks! good luck!

[jackb911]

Ditto on GHL quality...I bought a GHL cat bypass for my '87 Carrera, and it was a work of art. And it fit perfectly.

[mb911]

400 stainless is not the answer for high heat. in reality 3 series is best but depends on what series. we only use 321 for its high heat capicity . it will not rust per say but will break down from acids in the exhaust over many years Just like it has in the aircraft industry where 321 is the only choice for most of light avaition and Ti is the answer for every thing else. 4 series is not used at all in avaition. now 304 stainless which is most commonly used in aftermarket exhaust is not up to the challange of 99% of its intended purpose with the exception of one brand that I can think of (ssi) . 4 series will rust as it is part of the straight chrome series of stainless steels. you need more nickel to stop rust and that is why it is what it is. As to the fabspeed stuff. I have no personal experience but there is no way in hell I would spend 1500 dollas on any of there stuff but remeber I am biased I would contact them and see if they will take it back and strongly consider looking at ssi as a replacement header system along with a decent after market muffler. or if staying stock look at dansk premuffler and an aftermarket muffler.

good luck sorry to see this happen to you. I hope it works out

[Foto Veloce]

As a recent FabSpeed customer (cup pipe / primary bypass for a 90 C2), I have to say. THE PRODUCT STINKS!!

After struggling or a coule of hours to see if I can get it lined up and sealed, I notcie that one of the flanges is not even round! I take it a shop to see if they can re-pair but the material is too thin to stretch, they won't touch it.

So now I'm sitting there with a $350 piece of pipe.. and little more. The bracket that hols it up looks pretty and is flimsy. The clamps use SAE grade 5 NON-STAINLESS fasteners. What the heck?!? This is a Euro car.. use Euro fasteners, nobody like searching for a 9/16" wrench when they have thier metric tools out.

After a much frustration with it.. the POS (and I use that term with the most disrespect) is going back. I better fraeking get a refund or all hell is going to break loose. Spending that much for a mandel bent pipe is insane on the face of it.. but it needed end-user mods is WAY beyond reasonable.

I do have a cup-pipe / primary bypass installed in my car though, and I'm quite happy with the added growl and the butt-dyno results.

How much did it cost me? $60. Yeap. $60 for a local muffler shop to make an alignment jig, cut out the muffler and weld in a straight section of pipe. With some minor bends i was able to re-use the stock mounting bracket in the car and a 3" diameter clap. Took about 20 min to install (which is what the FabSpeed part *should* have taken).

Yes.. sorry.. this is becoming a rant but for that price.. is hould have been freaking PERFECT. Also.. the quality of the parts reminded me of stuff I'd bougt out of China for my Miata off eBay.

Your FS Parts May Vary.

- David

PS. Uploaded a photo.. you can see the Fabspeed and my part just befeore the FS went in the box and the other in my car.

[Foto Veloce]

Originally posted by charleskieffner


our motto...........we dont give a ***** how much it costs...........as long as its done RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

doing things to your car to make it better will always cost money. its just doing it 2 and 3 times to make it right that sucks! good luck!

+1 That's why I shelled out $350 for what amounted to a tube, 2 clamps and a bracket. I expected it to fit flawlessly. Obvious it did not. Dissapointed and mad do not come close to my emotions. Ripped off is a closer but keeping things rated PG-13 keeps me from fully expressing myself.

[Oh Haha]

Problems like this are one of the reasons I did my exhaust locally with a Flo-Pro muffler. I love the sound and flat black fits right in with the look I want. M+K made great systems, however, that sound great.

[chibone_914]

True Charles. We as a vendor could not get a straight answer from Jay at FAB whether if the exhaust or mufflers or anything was manufactured here or in Taiwan. Then the last time Jay and I spoke, he said the exhaust was being produced in the USA but did not want to disclose what city or state they were being made......and I'm a vendor!! I just told him if he wasn't willing to be honest with me, so that I can pass the information along to the customer, I wasn't personally going to sell his product.

[charleskieffner]

i have been on all sides of sales. consumer/buyer/purchasing/outside sales/inside sales/ warehouse/tool crib/sales manager for western region etc.

if corporate america/small business cannot figure out that there is only ONE thing between their competition and themselves...........and thats their QUALITY!

i have sold on price and on quality. i will ONLY sell on quality ever again. i WILL PAY MORE FOR QUALITY anyday over having to halfass rework items that are supposed to fit!

there is nothing worse than buying WAZOO part that will sound better, make car handle better, go faster etc. and when you start to put part on, you have only compounded problems and wrenches start flying and heart rate goes thru roof!

i do not do biz w/companys that do not stand behind their quality or wrenching abilities. quality control is JOB #1 for me in my present job. if you dont have time to do it right the first time when will you find time to do it right the second time??????????

i even visited GHL before i made my purchase, and checked them out. the place is surprisingly clean for a mfg. shop, and they gave me the grand tour w/out reservation.

if i have any faults that people can describe of me, its that i focus solely on ONE project at a time until it is completed perfectly(yes im ANAL). we didnt finish high in off road racing standings or SCCA racing years ago, by being half assed on work or quality of parts. the same goes for my p-car! we are now going on 8 months straight, a wad of cash, a few learning curves, lots of rule reading and interpertation, and lot of time. if something breaks at track the next time, it will not be because we didnt make a full on effort, at spending big bucks for QUALITY PARTS or QUALITY WORK. it will be because of a $1.50 part we never thought of!

a company is only as good as its employees.

a salesman only has his word, once that is tarnished, he is toast. WORD travels fast!

the BEST ADVERTISEMENT is WORD OF MOUTH!

if the product is good its GOOD!

if the product is poor............................ITS SH&T!!!!!

the customer is ALWAYS RIGHT!

[Zef]

It's a good thing to know...I am supposed to go with a Fabspeed euro premuffler / M&K muffler 1 in / 2 out combination...Is there a known fit problem with that two components together ???

[mb911]

typically no issues. we sell a good amount of the single inlet mufflers and the fabspeed bypasses are usaully very good but even some stock cats are different from one another

[unclebilly]

Ben,

I spent 5 years of my life designing high temperature fuel cells and still would be if the oil and gas industry hadn't lured me away for more $$$. 434 and 430 stainless are very common on Japanese cars for headers etc. In the end, I did all of the alloy selection for the fuel cell stacks. I evaluated several alloys in both oxidizing and reducing environments at temperatures up to 850 C. A certain variant of 434 was the best in terms of $$$/life. This alloy also happens to be used in exhaust flexs, gas fires hot water tanks, and headers in Japanese cars.

The problem with nickel based alloys for high temp exhaust products is thermal expansion, thermal stress, and spalling. 321 is the best of the 300 series for this application and 310 comes in next. 316 is defianately out as it suffers stress corrosion cracking from CO2. If you want to spend the big bucks, use Haynes 230, it's an awesome high temp alloy that maintains its strength at 800 C, though it is austenitic.

Scott.

[charleskieffner]

T304 was what we were machining on b&b's FIRST CNC MILL back in '97 doing billy boys header flanges. now is it domestic 304 or offshore 304 steel. knowing how cheap he is on tooling(first indicator of a moron in the CNC world), i would guess offshore 304 and rockwell hardness scales are across the universe unless steel has documented CERTIFICATION PAPERS! and with rockwell scales different on each batch of steel, the machinability is different on every single batch thereby quality and accuracy and tooling suffer! let alone repeatability!

kinda goes against ISO 9001 quality control rules which show documentation/certification for EVERY MANUFACTURING ASPECT of part!

[Emission]

I may be the exception, by my Fabspeed (dual out for the 930) has been excellent. Perfect fit, no rust. All fittings appear stainless.

[bill3667]

Originally posted by zefsuper911
It's a good thing to know...I am supposed to go with a Fabspeed euro premuffler / M&K muffler 1 in / 2 out combination...Is there a known fit problem with that two components together ???

You may want to consider the Dansk Euro Pre-muffler, that's what I went with. When a group of Pelicans 3+ yrs. ago started looking into a group buy Fabspeed was having problems w/ flanges (I believe) being way off. One member of the group was getting the run-around from (??) at Fabspeed, I don't know that it ever was resolved.

I heard of no problems from any of the 20+ of us that went w/ Dansk. Dansk was an OEM for the stock units so they know how to make them.