930 EFI questions

[rotorhead]

I have a 88 930 with CIS and I am considering a converting to an EFI system. Not to make gobs of hp but because my fuel distributer needs reconditioning and programable EFI has a lot of benifits other than big hp (driveability / fuel economy / simplicity)

(RarelyL8 feel free to jump all over this thread)

So.. my only real upgrade from stock has been steel headstuds and a k27 7200 turbo and a wideband O2 setup. Looking at the various sites such as TBitz and goingsuperfast I am considering keeping my 930 intake manifold, going megasquirt using aluminium injector blocks.

I would appreciate any advice or experiences from mild to wild. I am the sort of chap who will spend extra money if I see value in it.

[beepbeep]

Megasquirt + EDIS + OEM 930 plenum + injector block = cheapest EFI possible on 930.

930 plenum is a bad compromise but it's free. Wideband O2 is a good tool to map Megasquirt with but you don't need it once it's done.

[RarlyL8]

You want me to get in trouble don't you, HA!

Before spending that first dime on EFI I would take your Fuel Head apart and clean it. It is not rocket science you just need to handle it carefully. There is a thread posted recently on the subject.

Any EFI will cost you thousands - beleive me I have thoroughly researched the cheapest way, there is no free lunch. Attempting to clean your Fuel Head is free, sounds like you have nothing to lose.

[rotorhead]

Thanks beep thats what I thought about the cost. I've heard that some guys have bored the standard injector blocks instead of using the aluminium onnes, I think it a bit risky.

Oh and beep.. why EDIS?

RarlyL8, I'll only open up the FD when I have plan together to throw it away (that thread on opening the FD gets my vote for post of the year). If I can recondition it great if not I'll continue onto EFI. ( I am not in the land of the star spangled banner where FD reconditing can be done for under $1500USD)

[beepbeep]

Originally posted by rotorhead
Thanks beep thats what I thought about the cost. I've heard that some guys have bored the standard injector blocks instead of using the aluminium onnes, I think it a bit risky.

Oh and beep.. why EDIS?

It's up to you. Standard phenolic injectors crack of all age. I bet new ones will cost a fortune at the dealer.

Why EDIS? Why not? It will give you programmable distributorless ignition and it's easy to adopt ut to twin-plugs too. You'll need EDIS-6 for 6-banger.

It costs less than 150 bucks and can be controlled by MS2. Being a wastefire system, you don't need cam sensor either so you can use crank-sensor. That way you can yank out whole CIS crapola + distributor. Heck, it's worth weight saving alone

[adomakin]

sds is another option. although it is standalone it is still every bit as programmable as any other system in terms of fueling and ign but it won't match megasquirt for price. (probably second cheapest though and with 12 yrs of manufacturing its pretty hardy)

www.sdsefi.com

[PJMARKOW]

Hi Steve,

I've converted my 930 to EFI. Before you look at megasquirt you should check some of the Australian ECU's. I used an EMS Stinger. The new version 4 has heaps of options and is currently selling for around $1000 Au. I used the standard manifold and purchased a set of alloy injector blocks from www.goingsuperfast.com together with the fuel rails. You will also need a set of injectors (I used Siemens 570cc units), air temp sensor, engine head temp sensor & O2 sensor. You are probably looking at $3500 Au by the time you purchase all the kit, and then you will have to wire it all up. If you want more info I can email you the specifics.

Cheers

[rotorhead]

Originally posted by PJMARKOW
Hi Steve,

I've converted my 930 to EFI. Before you look at megasquirt you should check some of the Australian ECU's. I used an EMS Stinger. The new version 4 has heaps of options and is currently selling for around $1000 Au. I used the standard manifold and purchased a set of alloy injector blocks from www.goingsuperfast.com together with the fuel rails. You will also need a set of injectors (I used Siemens 570cc units), air temp sensor, engine head temp sensor & O2 sensor. You are probably looking at $3500 Au by the time you purchase all the kit, and then you will have to wire it all up. If you want more info I can email you the specifics.

Cheers

PJMARKOW,

I have now bought all the same bits that you mentioned...
Siemen 570cc injectors
Goingsuperfast Injector blocks/rails/crank sensor
EMS Stinger v4
LC-1 wideband

Any chance you could send me your ecu map and give me afew installation tips or photos..


Steve

[PJMARKOW]

Hi Steve. PM me with your email address and I will send you my latest map. Is the LC-1 a air meter? You will need an O2 sensor to run it I suspect. The Stinger will take an O2 input and will log the results for you so you can tune on the road. You will also need something to do ignition. The Stinger will control a number ignition options. If you have the trigger wheel and sensor, might I suggest you check put the AEM sight. They have some trigger boxes and coils so you could run a wasted spark setup at a reasonable price. There are excellent wiring diagrams for this in the Stinger help files.

Cheers

[hobieboy]

I have just completed my EFI conversion - Megasquirt with 3.2 intake and direct coil drive.

If you add up the cost of injector blocks for 930 intake, you'll find that 3.2 is not that much more. But of course, then you'll spend more on porting the heads

If you are cool with DIY, from my last round of feature comparison, Megasquirt is as good as most in the resonable price range.

[PJMARKOW]

Hi Steve,

Glad you got the map file OK. It's setup for my car which is still running the distributor. It's locked and the ECU triggers an M&W single channel CDI. All the sensors for your install can be purchased here www.enginemanagement.com.au The Stinger has been calibrated for them all (including the O2 sensor). I have my air temp sensor tapped into the intercooler just before the throttle body. The engine temp sensor is bolted to one of the head fins on cylinder number 4. There is a wiring diagram included with the Stinger help file so you should be OK. The wiring loom you get has the tube for the onboard MAP sensor integrated. I have this plugged into one of the connections on the throttle body just after the throttle plate. The other connection from the throttle body goes to my rising rate fuel regulator. I have the regulator set at 40 psi initial. The Stinger has 4 outputs that are programable. The software for my car is set up so that one controls the boost, and one controls the fuel pump, which turns off after a couple of seconds if the ignition is on and the engine is not running. There is one thing I suggest you should do, and that is to install some phenolic heat isolators underneath the alloy injector blocks. I wasted about 2 months trying to trace why the car ran like a dog once it warmed up. Turned out the injectors I was using coudn't hack the heat. I replaced them with the Seimens and purchased a PMO heat insulation kit from Performance9 here in Ozz. I had the injector blocks machined at the bottom to allow for the installation of the heat insulators. Once I'd done this, no more problems.
I've attached some images of my install.

[PJMARKOW]

[PJMARKOW]

A few more install tips.

When installing the alloy injector blocks and fuel rails do not tighten the manifold down until all the injectors are installed and secured tightly with the fuel rail. This lessens the strain on the injectors because the injector blocks can move a little when you tighten the fuel rail down. Less likely that an injector will crack (tell me how I know).
Once all your wiring done and you have your engine starting, make sure you verify your timming with a good timming light. Make sure that what the Stinger is telling you about degrees advanced, is what is actually ocurring.
Unless you've ported your heads you will find that the alloy injector blocks/heat insulators manifold and heads are not an ideal match. The blocks are actual about 38mm. I left them as is with a view to fixing things next time the engine is out, and have found no real problem.

Tuning

The map I gave you will be reasonable close so you should be able to start the car. Warm it up and make sure it's idling nicely. The AFRs will be about 13-13.5 depending on cams, compression etc. If you are tuning on the road you can start by using the logging facility. Drive around the block part throttle no boost. You may even like to use that auto tune feature. When you get back you can check the AFRs. I write them down togther with the KPa and Revs, then I go back to the fuel map, and make the adjustments. Don't just adjust one site, you need nice smooth transitions so you will need to adjust a number of sights around the point you want the adjusted AFR to be. After a couple of runs you will get the hang of it. Low load cruise should be around the low 14s high 13s. I have found any leaner and the car develops a faint miss. As you are using my fuel map, if the car is running lean initially, I would richen it up a bit by just going through the map and adjusting each sit up by 3 or 4 points.
Now for on boost tuning. You can do this on the road to but you must be careful. Start by logging a few runs where the boost just starts to come in. You will see from the logs where the AFRs are going as the car comes on boost. On the fuel map it's pretty easy to extrapolate a bit and adjust the sites on boost where you haven't been yet to more approriate values. When my car comes on boost its starts around mid to low 13s (13.5 - 13) and then progressivley richens up to 11.9 on full boost (.8 bar). This is a very conservative tune, and I could probably lean it off a bit on boost, but then I'am a very conservative person. I don't think you'll have many problems tuning the AFRs as long as you take it progressively and err a little on the rich side. As for the timing, I would leave it alone. The timing map on my car was set after about 6 hours on the dyno, be PEM in Sydney when the original Stinger was installed, and it's spot on. I did click advance under full boost down a few degrees after I rebuilt the engine, but I think you'll find that compared to our US turbo cousins, the timing is still further advanced under boost than on many of their cars. We have a good supply of 98 octane, so no pinging here.

Have fun with your new EFI
Oh one more thing, I have a second hand Mille Miglia muffler for sale complete with O2 bung installed, so if your interested give me a PM.

Cheers

[rotorhead]

Awesome Paul, thanks a ton. I have everything I need now just need the time to put it all in.