Heater Box questions from newbie

I've got an '80 SC that's been running great and has been tremendous fun! Best car I've ever owned...anyway, I've had the car for about a year and have had problems with exhaust in the passenger compartment during the winter. Brought it into my mechanic and they said the heater boxes and exhaust Y-pipe need to be replaced--all are totally shot. They quoted me a price for parts that was $1325 for both boxes and around $500 for the Y-pipe. Seemed outrageous to me, but I thought I'd run it past you guys...does that sound high?? I have seen heater boxes anywhere from $100 each to $500 each in catalogs and am wondering if the higher priced ones are really worth it?? Is this something that someone with advanced beginner/intermediate auto-repair skills could handle, or is it so nasty that I'd best leave it to the experts??

Any advice would be appreciated...

By the way, am I the only female to post here or own a Porshce??

Nancy:

The biggest problem you will experience with removing the heat exchangers will be breaking loose the Allen studs that hold them on. You can't really see them, since they are way up high in the tubes between the cylinders to where to exchangers sit (god, that was hard to describe). Anyway, these are a bear to do, you will need an 8" long Allen wroench to reach them, and if you can't loosen them, heat will have to be applied.

The best way to see if you can get them any cheaper, is to do some "shopping" by calling Vertex, Europroducts, PelicanParts, and even Porsche salvage yards. But if you have the time, also post a wanted ad, since many of us can sell you our old exchangers after having replaced them with SSI's.

By the way, I doubt that you are the only female on THIS board, but 911s have historically been considered a "man's" car, since few women seem to want to put up with it, and it IS somewhat "masculine" in appearance. I do know many woman who drive them, but I'll bet the ratio is something like 70% male, 30% female. But it is nice to see more women enjoying the 911......Andras

Nancy,

No, you aren't the only female poating here! There is one from the SF bay area, and another from Britain, that I am aware of!

Do you happen to have Bruce Anderson's 'Porsche 911 Performance Handbook'? You may recognize his name as the Technical Editor of 'Excellence' magazine! I think you should get a copy and do some reading, before deciding what you are going to do about your exhaust system!

Those prices do seem high, though no surprise! What I would like to suggest is mentioned in the 'Handbook,' though not in any detailed way. Why not put on a set of SSI heat exchanger replacements for a '65-'73, and a matching '65-'73 OEM style muffler ... and enjoy a healthy approximate 25 hp power gain, and a 'nicer' exhaust note, as well? The total parts cost should only be about $1100!

The work involved would actually be a little less complex than putting your system back stock. And, based on the 20 year age of your exhaust system components, I would suggest applying heat with a 'Rosebud' tip on an oxy-acetylene torch (can be rented) to begin your disassembly process. After heating each nut to be removed from the cylinder heads to cherry red, ,move on to the next, so each of the 12 get heated once, then cooled back down , once. Next, proceed to heat each of the six conventional hex nuts from the side, moving back and forth, and around on both sides, trying to minimize heat tranfer to the stud. When dull cherry red, kill the torch and allow the nut to cool for a minute or so. Use a 'flex wrench' or six-point 13 mm socket on a flex-handle (a miniature version of a breaker bar) ... first apply moderate force to slightly tighten the nut, but not enough force to break loose, then reverse direction and back the nut off. Do not apply any excessive force, because there is a danger of breaking off the studs from the cylinder head. If the nut refuses to come loose, move on to the next nut ... and plan on using multiple heat/cool cycles on that stubborn nut! The reason for doing the six hex nuts first is so you will be familiar with the amount of force involved to loosen the nuts when you get around to the six Allen 'barrel' nuts that are hard to get to, and need the special long 8 mm Allen drive bit.

Other than the fact that you will be dealing with rusted, stubborn fasteners, if you do your own oil changes, and can change your own sparkplugs, I see no reason not to do this exhaust system work yourself! It WILL be hard work, but not particularly complex! Good luck!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

The SSI's are nice, but if you have smog inspections in your state, you most likely can't use the SSI's, because you will fail the visual (lack of cat converter) and most likely the actual smog test, too. (unless you want to swap back and forth at smog inspection time, but that's kind of a pain, because you need to swap the exchangers AND some oil lines).
If you don't have smog inspection, and the SSIs are legal in your state, they are a great way to go, though.

Hi Nancy - with respect to your gender question, we have a number of women in the PCA Potomac region (greater Washington DC) who participate in the Drivers Ed - in all the run groups, from green (newbies) to the red (essentially racers). Several have Porsche Cup cars that blow the socks off the guys going around the track.
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Of the nine instructors I have had for Drivers Ed, the two best, from whom I learned the most, were women. Both were very analytical, technical, observant, and articulate.
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chuck

Hi
I've got a set of heat exchangers from an '83 sc that are just laying around in my garage. They are a little scraped up, but I should think that they would work fine. If you are interested in them I'll take a closer look to verify their quality. They only had 60k on them.

Nancy,

Keep an eye on Ebay and the various PCA websites as I have seen either stock or SSI exhaust parts there in the past couple of weeks at a greatly reduced price.

Everyone is correct that this can be a real bear to do, with the fastners being difficult at best to remove. Lots of penetrating oil and if this does not work, heat usually works. A good working relationship with a good mechanic is essential here... its not fun work and not easy to access the nuts and bolts.

My soon to be ex-wife drives a 81 silver 911 Targa (no comments on who addicted her to this) so you are not the only lady in a Porsche. Here in the Dallas area we have several lady drivers with the local PCA chapter and quite a few autocross as well....

Good Luck,

JoeA

Thanks for the help!!

Unfortunately I live in an area where they check emissions regularly, so I guess I'd better stick to the stock parts. I'll take a look at Ebay and the classifieds before having these guys install the new parts. Thanks for that tip 'cause I didn't even think of used parts before you guys mentioned that option!

I do change/replace plugs, do oil changes (can't see paying someone $100 for that...), wheel bearings, etc., so maybe I'll try tackling the exhaust myself too. Just hate to shell out that kind of money right now considering we have a baby on the way.

Also glad to hear there's other women Porsche fanatics out there...makes me feel a little more like a "normal girl!"

Nancy,

You must have grown up in the country! Most girls will not even think of wheel bearings!

Was on the Pelican parts website last night and found several people advertising exhaust and heating parts. Would rather trust them than Ebay, but Ebay does sometime have some good stuff. Be very careful who you buy from and use Pay Pal if possible.

The important question is: do you have a single sister???

Take care,

JA

Nancy,

Was just doing a bit of brainstorming about smog legal performance mods for an SC with regards to this post:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/Forum3/HTML/002156.html

I don't believe your '80 SC has the Lambda sensor, either, so you might consider something similar. You might even want to contact Paul Wier at www.paulwier.com ... to see if he knows what might pass smog requirements in your area.

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

Once again, thanks for all of the help. I've gotten a couple of leads on buying some used parts from guys on this forum, so I'll probably go that route rather than e-Bay.

Sorry guys, I don't have a single sister. And yes, I grew up in the country. My dad and brothers taught me basic car and tractor maintenance from an early age! It was basically the only way I could spend any time with my dad, actually, since he was always busy working on either the tractors or the trucks. I have one brother who rebuilds engines (diesel truck, semis, and gas cars) who covets my Porsche, and another who used to rebuild C-130 engines for the Air Force--now he's doing other stuff but also restoring a 1967 Camaro from the ground up. My sisters are married, not mechanically inclined, and not interested in cars--sorry. My husband wasn't really that interested in cars either, but he perked up quite a bit when I bought my 911 last year! I've "let" him drive it a few times and he now understands why I've always wanted one...but he still refuses to work on it with me!

Warren and all,
Actually, US-spec 80 SCs do have the lambda sensor. 80 was the first year for it. SSIs are available in a version with a mounting boss for the lambda sensor.

Re: the small cats - I think B&B sells a small cat that fits (somehow) into the exhaust tip itself. I've never seen this, but it's listed on their website, if I remember correctly.
hth
Greg