Is this correctly jacked on axle stands ?

[andyjboy]

As an aside Ian - why is your '73 2.4T on an 'M' plate ?

[SP2]

Ok, I did the search for "bill verburg" and "jack". Here is the photo I think you guys are referring to.

Lifting Points

Highfield, as you can see from the thread, there are varying opinions on jacking. My opinion, for what it's worth, is that the engine is ok to jack from and much easier than going from side to side. Look at the Pelican Parts Technical Articles section and read the article on engine drop. Or better yet, I will paste it here for you.

"You jack up the car by placing your jack under the engine sump plate. Get a real jack for this task, as the jack that came with the car will not do, and you will also need one later on for removing the engine out of the car.

Make sure that you place a block of wood, or an old rolled up newspaper under the sump plate to avoid damaging it with the jack, as shown in Figure 7. The newspaper acts as a nice firm cushion, and protects the bottom of the engine, as shown in Figure 8. " (Wayne Dempsey)

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/911_engine_drop/911_engine_drop-1.htm

Hope this helps you. Looks like you have a great car. Can't wait to see your other photos!

[911pcars]

I threw this challenge out to our engine builders on the forum awhile back. So far, no one has gotten around to do this, with a customer engine or otherwise.

I suggested using a short block (partially rebuilt engine) or equivalent and position it, drain plug up, on a solid surface and under a hydraulic press. Position a dial indicator somewhere on the crankcase and/or sump plate to measure any deflection from the following procedure:

Using the hydraulic ram, apply approximately 1500 lbs. force onto the sump plate (don't forget the rolled up newspaper), then observe the dial indicator for any movement at various locations around the case.

The 1500 pounds replicates the approximate weight of the rear end when lifted off the ground (2500 lbs with 40/60 frt/rear weight proportion). If your 911 weighs more, apply the appropriate add'l weight.

If there is no deflection, no effect, I'll gladly change my POV and thereafter lift from the sump plate (maybe). Next question. If there is deflection, how much is too much? For example, what are the downsides of 0.001" or 0.010" deflection at the side of the case? Good, bad, indifferent? What are the ramifications of repeated deflection over many years? This last question is hypothetical but maybe there's a mathematical calculation to solve it.

I'd rather have evidence or hear it from a factory engineer than believe what someone writes on the internet or uses random observation and heresay to pass along "a recommendation". The engineers may have already voiced their opinion when the caution is included in the owners manual (although some say lawyers write it). Others may need less of a reason to use the engine as a lift point and I understand that. I bring this up more for those who have an open mind on the subject.

Wayne and I had a casual discussion at one of the car meets earlier this year. He and I agree to differ. I forgot to ask him if he'd use a jack under the sump plate of the $100,000 flat 8 engine he was standing next to.

My method of jacking under the gearbox crossmount may have its downsides as well for all I know. For me, that's the option I'm left with for the above reasons.

Sherwood

[Highfield]

Originally posted by andyjboy
As an aside Ian - why is your '73 2.4T on an 'M' plate ?

Andy,

DVLA has it as registered 1st Sept 1973 - I am going to get a CoA and send it to them to get it put on a 'L' - might even find it was manufactured in 1972 and get it tax free.

Randy - 'you really ought to do a search'
I have read lots on this and searched high and low, and seen many conflicting accounts. I am aware of Bills diagram, but having jacked up the rear in one go, I wasn't able to use one torsion bar cover to jack up the whole front end - I will use the 2X4 across the tow hook in future - thanks.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

Anent Gunter's comment to "put a little grease on the lug nuts," I believe there's some controversy on this. Porsche says don't, on some cars, and do, on others. As far as I can tell, the difference is don't on lug nuts that go onto studs, do on lug bolts.

Probably a tempest in a teacup anyway. Just another of those things Porscheniks can get hysterical about and lose sleep over...

[Gunter]

Nobody puts jack stands under when changin a flat tire on some country road; the whole side of the car is up in the air held by the Bilstein jack.
Some common sense need to be applied here.
A 3-ton jack holding up the car on one side is more than safe since there is no need to crawl under if it's just to clean out the wheel wells.
Take the wheels off and place them under the A-arm and trailing arm if it makes you feel better.
I much rather have a 3-ton jack holding up one side than having the car sit on 4 wobbly jack stands, especially the front T-bar cover set-up is very shaky.
If you use jack stands, get the 4-or 5-ton jacks. Not for the weight capacity; the heavier jack stands have a bigger base. Forget the 2-ton jacks, the base is too small.
I would not crawl under a car that's sitting on 4 jack stands without a floor jack on each side snug up on the jacking plates. ( I made 2 jacking devises from 7/8" key stock and I have 3 floor jacks)

As a retired ME with more than 30 years in heavy industrial construction, moving heavy loads was part of the job and I am still in one piece.
As for the grease on the lug nuts:
Aside from the Porsche bulletin for Fuchs wheels on this issue, unless specified, a torque-spec is always "wet" meaning: Lube. (Or thread locker)
Unfortunately, that fact is not mentioned in the various repair manuals.
You cannot get the right torque-value by having metal grinding on metal; lube the threads AND the mating surface of a bolt or nut.
One of the few exceptions is a Titanium fastener, no lube.
Too bad that there is no antiseize lube used during manufacturing. (Because of time pressures) That's why you have broken cross member bars when trying to open the 12mm bolts and broken exhaust studs.
Use common sense and enjoy.