Is this correctly jacked on axle stands ?

[Highfield]

I have just been out today and purchased a 3 tonne jack (20 inch quick lift) and two sets of 6 tonne ratchet axle stands.

First I jacked up the rear using the 'notch' under the engine - is this OK or do I need to use padding ?


Then I jacked up the front by inserting the jack from the side and used the front of the floor area in the centre - is this OK and if not where do I use ?



Is this the correct place for the fron t axle stands ?



The top of the jacking point is about 16" off the ground with this.



I did all of this VERY slowly for the first time, but it felt solid once up there.

Any comments welcome.

[livi]

The jack stand points look correct to me. Although I am not so sure about jacking it up where you did in the front.

[SP2]

Don't jack the front where you did. The middle of the floor is weak, and you probably bent the floor a little? (Hope not.) Use the aluminum crossmember to jack up the front next time. Fold up some newspaper, thick, or I used a small piece of wood, or some use a hockey puck on top of the jack so as not to damage the car. When jacking the engine, I was told to put the jack on the round oil sump plate. You have your jack on the crankcase halves and they are only glued together with loctite and bolts, so some told me not to put the jack there.

As far as the jackstands, I like how you got the biggest ones. Mine are smaller and I wish I bought the big ones like you. I have used the front torsion bar covers for the front like you did, but Peter Zimmerman, an expert, says there is a risk of the jack stand sliding off. If you use the front torsion bar covers, I would jack up the back first and put the back on jack stands before going to the front. That way you don't use the front t-bar covers as the fulcrum (and risk the car sliding forward.) But from your photos, it looks like you did the back first.

It's not clear where you put the jack stands in the back, but you took a photo of the rear torsion bar covers, so I assume you used that. That is the correct place to put them and very stable. The jack stand will "cradle" the t-bar cover and is very stable, so when you later jack from the front, the rear jack stand acts as a very safe fulcrum point.

If you later to work on the front suspension like I did, you will have to remove the front t-bar covers and will have to loosen the crossmember in order to remove the a-arms. So if you loosen the crossmember bolts, then the crossmember is no longer attached to the car, so don't use it to support the car with a jack or jack stand. There is a point on the floor pan, the most forward and lateral point, that is supported and you can put a jack stand there.

I work alone and am afraid of the car falling on me, so I bought extra jack stands and place them where I can as "emergency jack stands." Sorry this is so long, but I was just like you this spring and wanted to pass along all I had learned. Good luck with your project!

[SP2]

Oh, whenever applicable, block off the tires so the car doesn't roll on you.

[Highfield]

James,

Good call about the piece of wood - I will use that next time to pad between the jack and the car.

My crossmember is covered by a belly pan, which didn't appear to be too solid, so I avoided that. Is it the belly pan I should use to jack on ?

The front of the floor in the centre has a seam so I am not sure about using there, and I cannot use one side of the car, as I need to raise it from the centre aand use the rear torsion bars as a fulcrum - as you said.

Yes I jacked up the rear first.

[SP2]

Highfield,

Don't use the belly pan. It is just a piece of sheet metal to protect the fuel pump from debris. But the front of the belly pan should be supported by the crossmember. Or if you can crawl under the car, the belly pan is removed by four screws. If you need to lift the front end of the car a little, you could drive the car up on some wood under the front tires. I haven't had to do this because my used car didn't come with a front belly pan, but I have read on this forum that you can do this.

What exactly are you doing to the car. If you don't have to, I wouldn't raise both the front and rear.

Ooh, when I looked again at the close up of your front jackstand on t-bar cover, only the rear of the jackstand appears to be in contact with the cover. That is not stable.

Whenever you are done jackstanding the car, stand to the side of the car and really push on the car side to side and front to back to make sure the car is solid. It shouldn't wobble even a little bit. Better to knock the car off the stands while you are to the side than when you are under it. When you start torqueing underneath on tight bolts, you could knock the car off if it is not really solid.

Be Safe!

[kycarguy 935]

I use a small stack of carpet also on top of the jack. That way it grabs the car and doesn't damage or scratch the underside at all.

[Wil Ferch]

Couple of different observations....

Proper jacking points are illustrated in the owners manual..and ( I believe) repeated here by Bill Verburg ( search).

I don't like lifting the engine anywhere..neither the oil sump plate ( which is in itself pretty weak and prone to bending..not to mention the oil pick-up is is that vicinity), and the front ( as noted) is wrong.

I don't understand...if you want to end up on 4 jack stands...why not lift from the side jack port ( provided!) and place a rear jack stand on the "curve" of the inner body floor sheet metal just forward of the spring plate covers...and place a jack stand on the front corner/inside wheel well...just aft of the hard brake line points, and where the underbody curves from fore-aft to sideways...again...Bill V offers up the factory pic showing the "shaded" areas where this is proper. Then ...jack the other side of the car with its jack port...and go back and forth on both sides to incrementally increase the height.

Wil

[imcarthur]

I like to use the inner torsion bar tube on the rear. That let's you do suspension work - re-indexing etc. And it is solid.

Ian

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

One thing to be careful of if you use the stock jackports and an aftermarket jackpad, which is what I do: If you jack up one side well into the air, put a jackstand under the rear torsion bar tube, lower the car onto that jackstand and then pop around to the other side and do it all over again, you can easily slide the car off the first jackstand, since the torsion bar tube moves very nicely from side to side in the "crease" of the jackstand, in response to the "pulling" leverage that a floor jack provides when it nears the top of its travel. (i.e. it's not only pushing the car up, but now it's also trying to pull the car toward itself, if it's on anything but a very smooth garage floor and has well-lubed casters.)

The safe approach is to do the raising in increments, one side and then the other: first take the car up just enough to get a jackstand under the torsion bar tube with the stand in the full-down position, then do the other side, then come back to the first side and raise some more, etc.

[Wil Ferch]

Stephan more eloquently stated what I attempted to say...but what the hey...he's a professional writer for C&D...right ?

- Wil

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

Wil, that's kind of you, but I don't think the current C/D even remembers who I am, or was, or cares. But then neither do I.

[911pcars]

There's an air space between the front splash shield and the suspension crossmember, and lifting here will distort the shield. A better, long term solution is to install a spacer to span the air space to create a solid mass from jack to crossmember. I installed a stack of flat aluminum bar stock onto the shield to accomplish this.

Use a separate jack and jack plate in the side jack receiver to lift one side of the car, then slide a floor jack under the shield. A target painted on the shield makes positioning easier.

As for raising the rear end, not the engine despite what someone told you (was it Ferdinand?). I raise the side of the car slightly with a separate hydraulic scissors jack and a jack plate on the side, then I slide the floor jack under the gearbox crossmember from the rear and lift. Jack stands go under the torsion bar tube; either under the torsion bar end covers or just inboard from that position.

Sherwood

[Jim Smolka]

For the jack, I cut a piece of 2x4 that fits inside of the cupped metal jack pad. This acts as a buffer btwn metal to metal contact.

Since your floor is brick, might want to put a piece of plywood under each jack stand to keep the brick from chipping or cracking.

Just my $0.015 worth

[real550A]

As James stated above, a hockey puck in the cup of the jack works great!
You can get free ones by attending a game. Like seeing the 5-0
Minnesota Wild, for example!
What ever method you use, step back and ask yourself if you'd trust your life to the setup.....because you are! Have fun!

[Gunter]

In the first picture, the position of the sump plate doesn't look right.
On the 3.0 liter, the drain-plug needs to be in the 9 o'clock position so the pump intake nozzle can pick up.
Is that different for 2.4?
The rest has been said: Small block of wood or puck between floor jack and metal on the recommended jacking points.
If you plan to remove the engine/transmission, the best point for balance is right in front of the sump plate (Towards the clutch)
Never on the sump plate!
The front jack stands need to go back a little on the T-bar covers.
The rear ones should sit under the T-bar covers. (The round tube)
Once it sits on the jack stands, leave the floor jack, with padding, under the area where you are working for saftey.
Why are you setting it on 4 jack stands?

[Highfield]

Many thanks for all the replies. I did this as a dry run, as today I wanted to remove all four wheels and get going with a good under wheel cleaning session. I am taking the car to be wayoyl treated on Wednesday, and with a sunny afternoon today, was pleased I tried it out yesterday.

I tried the 'one side at a time' method today and although it worked, I had to use my smaller jack stands at tthe front as it didn't get up high enough for my 6 tonne items. I felt less assured when raising the car this way, but it went up solidly in the end for the job in hand. Safety first though.

I am still confused about the front though. Without going right under there, it is difficult to visualise where I can slide a jack in from the front and raise only the front end for example. On Wednesday I will have it up on a four post lift so will take a real good look under there.

Can you put a piece of wood between the jack and the front crossmember where the towing hook is ? This is nice and near the front and the jack can get to it easily.

So, that is why I wanted all four wheels up - not a usual practise, but useful when I want to.

Have posted a separate thread with pictures of the nice rust free underneath.

Finally, if anyone has a good shot of where they jack the front, please post it for reference.

Finally, finally - Gunter mentioned the drain plug position - should I worry ?

[Gunter]

Next time you take off the sump plate, look at where the suction pipe for the pump is located, you'll see why. O.K. for now.
Make sure the plug is magnetic. It looks chewed up, someone didn't use the right wrench (Key in the U.K.?)
I use a magnetic plug for the oil tank as well.
The rear jack stands under the T-bar tubes are always more solid than the front set-up.
For cleaning underneath, I use the floor jack with a jacking plate in the hole on the side, crack the lug nuts loose, raise up just one side, take 2 wheels off, do the cleaning on one side, then the other. No jack stands.
Inspect/clean the area under the front fenders (Lamp buckets) a lot of dirt wants to sit there. If you find any rust, scrap/clean and paint with rust paint.
Good time to check the brake pads and rotors.
When you put the wheels back on, use a little grease on the lug nuts (Thread and convex) Torque is ~95 ft-lb.
Nice little 911.

[911pcars]

"No jack stands."

Gunter,
We want to see you around here for a long time. Use a secondary support system, not just the floor jack when any part of your body is under a raised vehicle.

I watched a little of the NASCAR race on Sat. (which one? They all look the same). Anyway, a car pulls into the pits with some underchassis problem. Crewman jacks up one side, then another crawls under the RR looking for something; doesn't find it, then continues on his back to an area directly under the rear seat area; all this with just a floor jack supporting the car, the engine running and an anxious driver with twitchy right foot watching his "P" number grow bigger.

They must pay crew members big bucks to do this. MHO, NASCAR should
have fined them for this dangerous practice. At a minimum, they could have placed a second jack under the car as backup.

Sherwood

[randywebb]

difficult to visualise ...

- you really need to do a search; Bill Verburg has posted pics of exactly what to do and where to lift.

I also have posted a pic of where to put a cut length of 2x4 to jack up the front w/o damage.

BTW, Sherwood is in a minority re jacking under the motor - that doesn't mean that he is wrong. But many do it.