Going to see a 1974 911 - have some questions

[umfan866]

OK I am currently bottom-fishing for 911's as I don't have the money I really want to buy one, but want to get in somehow, someway. I need a car I can drive to work and back (10 minutes) and go on the occassional joyride, and I am looking to spend 5k or less.

On the weekend I am going to see a 1974 911 Coupe. I asked the owner for the VIN and it is 911 410 3738 which after
surfing the web re-confirms that it is a plain coupe (not S, not
RS, not RSR etc---I wish). It has no ducktail and no Carrera lettering on the side which reconfirms it is not a Carrera.

What I know from the add and from talking to the guy is...

1. He is the 3rd owner. His friend (who he still knows) bought
it in 1975 as a one-year old car, and he bought it about 8 years
ago from his friend. Red exterior, black interior.

2. The add says--
"Approximately 250,000 miles but engine rebuilt at around 170,000 miles by Lukes & Shoreman. I have been using it as my every day car, but body and interior need major work (there is rust), and I do not want to restore it. Also needs some transmission work and possibly an alternator. In short, this is a car for someone who wants to restore a Porsche with a good engine. "
-various versions of the add were posted and asking price was $5,500 at first-now $5,000. He has stated he is taking offers -he want to be rid of the car in a month and will come down on price accordingly. He is very open/ up-front with questions.
-I seem to be the only person interested, despite his add being out there about 2-3 weeks now. He doesn't have pics but I am welcome to come and look at the car.
-Luckily this car is smog exempt in CA (it took me 4 months to get through smog with my bimmer so I am relieved)

After talking with him on the phone---
- the rust is visible on the outside. He had thought of having the whole car painted--for say $1-$2k, but decided not too--selling instead. He says he does not know the extent of the rust but it is NOT just surface.
- has ripped leather, and/or worse on the interior.
-alternator is going out he suspects (he estimates $500 job)
-the 2nd gear synchro is worn or not working-he can drive with
it but sometimes needs to take it out of 2nd if it slips
(he estimate this costs $2000-$2,500 to fix.)
-at 85 mph, the car shakes or there is vibration , so you can't really drive it higher. His mechanic went with him and told him this is normal.
-other than that it drives well
-the primary value of the car is in the engine. It was rebuilt 80,000 miles ago (about 8 years ago) at a cost of $10,000 at one of the best local independent German shops, a shop that other companies (eg even the Porsche dealer) would subcontract to
-lots of receipts available
-car can and has been driven daily in its current state for about 5 years
-while he doesnt have pics and would rather I just come look at the car, I asked him to look at the pics of the last car I went to see--http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/262194-68-912-fs-san-francisco-4-5k-trade-obo.html#post2373348
and he says his car is in somewhat better shape, but the engine compartment is in much better shape
-car came from factory pretty basic---no a/c , no sunroof--but 2nd owner had a sunroof installed--which remains closed because the switch didnt work...

My questions---
1. how much do you guys estimate the 2nd gear synchro and alternator to cost? (I only do light DIY)
2. what do you make of the vibration/shimmy at 85mph?
3. could the car continue to be driven safely while rusty and then fixed up later...
4. i am told rust repair is expensive--what could it cost? --in addition to or combined with a paint job.
5. what is the engine alone worth right now? 10k spent on a rebuild 80,000 miles ago.
6. assuming the car checks out , what would you do and/or
offer...it seems he will be determined to get rid of the car
to somebody soon...

(BTW on the same day I will also go to see a 1980 Targa w/ reasonably good paint, salvage title for 6k...but that may become another thread...)

[yelcab1]

Buy this car only if you love it, because you will have to feed it with lots of money, attention, time, effort, frustration, space, and then you will end up wishing for a younger girlfriend.

[oldE]

The phrase that comes to mind is, "Run, Forrest, Run!"
I think you were exceedingly brave to get up to 85mph in a car with unknown rust issues. Rust in a car that age can include the front suspension pan (The panel to which your wheels are ultimately attached, which might explain the vibrations), the rocker panels, windshield surround, rear parcel shelf, floor and rear seat area, and the sheet metal which holds the rear torsion tubes.
The engine is the much debated 2.7 liter, most of which have had their major issues addressed, by this point, but since you didn't mention what was done in the $10 K rebuild, its hard to say. It might be worth $1 K today, depending upon a compression test, subtract a couple of hundred for an alternator
The transmission syncro replacement might be a DIY project if you were game.
I would guess the reason there are no pictures is because the car is so nasty, the camera refused to work.
If you had an emotional attachment to the car, (say, if it was your grandfather's), as Yelcab said, you could hang in there in a labor of love. From what you have described, I think you would just be so sick of discovering horror after horror as you worked on this car, you would recall the car in another thirty years and still get sick to your stomach.
Keep looking or offer him a couple of thousand.
Les

[tonythetarga]

I might get flamed on this board but if you have a limited budget and want a Porsche, you can probably find a decent 944 for that money, but this car sounds like WAY too much work for your first car if you can't weld and do major mechanical work.
If you think you want it, have it inspected by a reputable P mechanic and get the $$$ estimate from someone that does this for a living. I think that will convince you to look elsewhere.

[glenncal1]

I am with Tony on this one, you wont get much of a 911 for under $5K and if rust is showing on the outside of the paintthink what is hidden. It is probably worth your while to look at the car just for the experience.

[Jim Sims]

All reasonable 911's cost $15,000 or more either when you buy it or in the process of fixing it. The 1974 you are looking at will likely consume $10,000 very quickly. Transmission repair: $2000; alternator repair: $500; new tires, replacing bent wheels or worn out ball joints and suspension bushings: $500 to $2000; rust repair and repainting: $6000 and up. A $2000 911 paint job is "very low ball". Interior: at least $1000. I would recommend you save up money and buy a better example. Cheers, Jim

[Rot 911]

Tony, no one with any experience working on 911's is going to flame you for that advice. That '74 is going to be a money pit. For $5K you can buy a very nice 944.

[David E. Clark]

The first thing I would do is read the Porsche buyers guide FAQ article posted here. It has some great tips.

Definitely go look at and drive this car -- in fact it's a great idea to drive as many 911s as possible before you buy. The 911 is a GREAT car but it is costly to repair and to maintain (especially one that is over 30 years old with as many issues as you describe). From the description you gave, the 74 you are considering sounds like it will be way out of your price league. If you've only got 5k to invest you'll soon find yourself upside down in repair and restoration bills. If you surf this board for any length of time, you'll hear the advice to "buy the best 911 you can afford." These are words of wisdom! If I were you I’d try to add another 5k or so to my savings and get a better car next summer. Spend this summer looking at possible purchases and learning about the model. You'll be much happier in the long run. Just my 2 cents.

[javadog]

I have to say that I would consider this car to be a parts car. Here's why:

You would be well into the useful life of that rebuilt engine at 80k miles, even assuming it was done correctly in the first place. Just because a well known shop did the work doesn't mean the owner didn't have them build it to a limited budget, with all that can entail. I've seen people who should know better do this...

I'd also question the ability of any mechanic that said a vibration at or above 85mph is normal. Complete BS. I'd hate for him to have worked on the car much.

Usually when a car gets this used up, if there are major things wrong with it, there are also a million little things also wrong. Lots of bucks if you should decide to fix them.

You'll never get your money back on this one. Ever.

Frankly, if you have to buy the car and it is safe to drive at all, the least amount of damage to your wallet would be to not fix anything and drive it till it quits. Then just walk away.

Considering that an SC can be had for less than 10k and 74-77 cars for less than that, $5,000 is way too much money for that car.

Just my opinion,

JR

[widgeon13]

Walk away, there will be other cars (911's) don't make the first experience a bad one, you'll never recoup you're investment.

[austin552]

If you don't have the funds up front and want a project to work on go for it. You will end up spending more in the long run though.
I opted for the project choice and have loved every minute of it. What a learning experience and sense of accomplishment.

[real550A]

You have been given good advice here, IMO. Run, don't walk away from this deal. That car, as described, is not a daily driver, and won't be for a long time and another 6 grand.
I'd take a chance on it for $2-2500 if you want something to work on and familiarize yourself with the 911's. Just my $.02.

[baldman]

Originally posted by umfan866
OK I am currently bottom-fishing for 911's

That is a bad idea. bottom-fishing for a 911 is like dumpster diving outside a fancy restaurant - you may find something, but it's going to make you sick.

Sock that 5K away somewhere and keep adding to it as much as you can. Before you know it you'll have enough for a decent 911.

[juanbenae]

i think it's all been covered. you will not enjoy the ownership experience with this car as described. rebait the hook and cast out again.

[jorian]

Even if it was free it would still cost you a fortune.


"Sock that 5K away somewhere and keep adding to it as much as you can. Before you know it you'll have enough for a decent 911." - Ditto

[Craig 930 RS]

I think he really wants a 911, not another model of Porsche.
My advice is to wait....like I did.

17 years, I finally got my first 911 - a 1979 911SC in nice shape for $7,000 -

P.S. An SC is a great way to start Porsche ownership

[ubiquity0]

The car sounds like a nightmare. If you buy it you'll end up hating Porsches & never want another again.

BTW- I strongly suggest you rethink your goal to buy a project 911 considering you "only do light DIY".

Even if this car was free you would end up being in $20,000 very quickly getting rust repaired, car painted (an average paint job is $5000, an excellent paintjob is $8000-$15000), interior made presentable, mechanicals fixed, and the 2000 small things that have been completely neglected in this sad example!

I agree to wait a couple years & save some money. There is just no sense in buying a car like this. $5000 plus $2500 to get second gear working then you're already in $7500 & have a rusty POS 911 with a hack job sunroof.
You can find a sound, rust free 74-77 911 for $7500. A sound SC for $8000-$9000.

[GothingNC]

You'd be better of getting a pre-67 aircooled bug

[Elu]

Here's my two cents on this. My car is a 74 911s. Four owners, I'm the third. This car was babied and well loved and I payed $13,000 knowing it had a few bugs. I dropped another $6000 into it to make it perfect....and it was already pretty much perfect from the start, so you can see how the money pit comes into play. The only good thing I can say about your potential 911 is that the engine was rebuilt...however being a 74 you need to make sure it was done with love and care. Here's a picture of mine as I bought it with the perfect interior. I only did a few things to the inside like adding the red and the center console. I also added stainless SSI heat exchangers and muffler and replaced all the oil lines...valve adjustment, tune up A/C modification as well as a new fresh air fan....just those items added up to almost $6000 and they were minor. Yours is going to be double that at least.

[cassidyp]

Interesting because there was an article in a recent Excellance about a comparable situation that i was just re-reading. The cover has the new Cayman in Red on the front. The author goes out and looks at a 74 coupe with some really good information that others here have spoken about. Agreed run away unless you have a lot of "semi liquid cash" with which you would like to part.