Value and reliability of 1977 930

Hello..
I found a 1977 930 with 98,000 miles on it, no major work has been done to the owners knowledge, it had a new clutch and brakes about 4,000 ago.
He is asking around 17.5 K
I have not seen it yet, but he says the paint is faded will need repainting, and says interior is excellent.

How long do the Turbo's last?
Are the 3.0 good engines, Do they have the same problems as the 3.0?

Is this a deal worth even considering, I know I should have it checked out by a porshe dealer before I make a deal, but I'm wondering if it is worth spending my time on it to begin with.
Thanks
In advance, have a good holiday weekend.
Bruce

930's in general are much more expensive to repair than their non-boosted counterparts. Maintenance is also more expensive. Rebuilds for a turbo motor occur every 30,000 mi on the average and cost around $7000 and up depending on how much needs attention. The '76/77 930 is a special case. Because the 3.0L is not intercooled they have a history of being run too hot and too hard. The motors cannot tollerate any hi-po parts as well for the same reason. The price seems O.K. but understand that anytime you buy a turbo the price you pay for the car is just an entry fee. You will spend big bucks before all is said and done (about the cost of the garage queen with all records). Historical maintenance records are nice but they don't mean squat when a car is over 20 years old. Have a good mechanic THOROUGHLY go over the car. Don't get me wrong - I love these cars, this is just the "reality" part of the dream.

[This message has been edited by RarlyL8 (edited 09-01-2000).]

That was quick..

That was what I was worried about, it sounds like a fun car, but I'm not sure if I'm ready for a turbo yet..

I understand when you get into the Turbo's you are looking at alot mor cost too.

Thanks
Bruce

I've noticed that parts for the "turbo" models are usually quite pricy, and I have heard that rebuilds happen every 30k miles. It was this car that made such an impression on me as a youth. "Big blocks" were getting over 300 horsepower, and Porsche was doing it with air cooled flat sixes (racing motors)!

Having said that, and being pretty budget-minded, I cannot having the kind of money it would take to drive one of these things. Instead, you can get a good 3.2 normally aspirated car for about that same money. And I have also noticed that the turbos are essentially no good for stuff like autocross. There is something to be said for the driveability (not to mention longevity) of a well-built normally aspirated Porsche engine.

Back to the other hand....it would be a blast to drive a turbo. My Humble Opinions.

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'83 SC

"Rebuilds for a turbo motor occur every 30,000 mi on the average and cost around $7000 and up depending on how much needs attention."

Those are some serious numbers, and they make me feel better about going the normally-aspirated route for my engine upgrade. But are there turbo drivers out there who would back that up? Would I really have to budget 23 cents per mile just for the cost of periodic rebuilds? Would the 993 Turbo S (of my dreams) require less-frequent rebuilds, or do I need to start squirreling away rebuild money now?

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Jack Olsen
1973 911 T sunroof coupe
http://members.rennlist.com/jackolsen/Jalopy.html



[This message has been edited by JackOlsen (edited 09-01-2000).]

Back in the seventies with that era's motor oils, trombone loop and thermal reactors bolted on your exactly right about the 30-50K rebuild frequency. However I believe a fresh 3.0-3.3 turbo with a good oil cooler, Mobile-1 and a little common sense (not running the heck out of it on a 90+ degree day) will go 100k. It's just a three liter with a turbo bolted on, your right foot will greatly influences longevity. The above posts are correct about the expense of a turbo though. There are alot of "turbo-only" pieces and parts on these cars, especially the older turbo's, and good lord they get alot of bucks for these. Not recommending one, lot's of bucks, but there's just nothing quite like a 930 in the mountains on a cool fall day.

I can't really speak on behalf of Porsche turbo cars, but it's been my experience that turbo charged cars tend to have a lot more problems than their naturally apsirated counter parts.

I currently own a Dodge Stealth RT/TT (twin turbo) that I will be replacing with a NATURALLY ASPIRATED 911. My car has 76K on it, and although pampered and well taken care of, it's not uncommon at all for the engines and turbos to start having problems when they reach the 75K+ mileage point (it also has twin intercoolers, so it's reliability is probably better than the 911 you're referencing).

I'm on some of the Stealth and 3000GT web sites (the Stealth is a 3000GT with a Dodge label) and I started noticing that a lot of the turbo models were blowing engines, having valve problems, etc. etc. between the 75K-100K mile range. The NA models, on the other hand seem to last forever (one guy had 400K miles on it and was complaining about the fact that his mechanic told him he needed to overhaul the engine or replace it). I decided to do sort of informal "web survey" at various other car sites (Porsche, 300ZX, Supra, Eclipse, etc. etc.) and the trend is definately there...the turbo models seem to last about 1/2 as long as the naturally aspirated engines...in some cases (like a late 70s Porsche turbo) it seems even worse.

Hi Guys,
I have to chime in on the saying that the engine needs a rebuild every 30-50.000 miles.
I know of more than one 3.0 turbos with more than 100.000 miles on them with no need for engine rebuild yet. They have leaky turbos yes, but the engine is fine. If you treat the car right, not pulling on it cold and letting it cool before switching it off, you can easily double the engine life.
There are good sides to the car, too. The gearbox is about bombproof, the chassis is a wonderful tuned thing, and the rest of the car is about similar to the Carrera. So yes more pricey engine maintenance, but nowhere near the garage queen budget mentionned.
I have a 400 HP 3.3, with 60'000 miles, and it doesn't use oil, doesn't smoke. The car is only used for BIG blasts in the mountains, and driven real hard. The thrust these cars give is a real pleasure, and quite addictive too.
So it is all a question of taste. One thing that I would do to any 3.0 s to add an intercooler, which helps the engine a lot.
My $0,02, GeorgeK

Oh my George...you have a turbo too? I think I need to come visit you for some mountain road Porsche cruising and story swapping one day.

I agree with you that the turbos I have encountered have certainly not "self destructed" at 30K miles; however, it can also be said that most turbos are 2nd/3rd/4th cars and are not driven very many miles at all. I mean, even my (normally aspirated) old cars have seen some years with ~2K miles, so at that rate, you're talking about 15 years before you hit that 30K rebuild mark. Sounds like a damn bargain to me. I for one am going to run, not walk, to buy a 930 if I cannot hit my more lofty $$$ targets (i.e. 993C4S or BoxsterS) in the near future.

Hey guys, if you want a car that will go 250,000 miles with nothing but oil changes and brake pads, get a Toyota or something!!! Otherwise just get the Porsche you want, and take damned good care of it, and keep that grin on your face for years.



[This message has been edited by campbellcj (edited 09-01-2000).]

Hi Campbell,
Anytime, just call before. I love to go for tours with like-minded (i.e. car nuts) people.
PS I live in Switzerland, where are you?

I'm in Los Angeles, Calif, USA -- but I will make it over there someday, guaranteed. It just might be a few years :-)

sorry guys but..........living proof here........I have a 1977 930 and YES I do drive it almost every day too..... so far 160.000 plus miles.....one engine rebild (done right)at 150.000 the insides were in good shape stil but showing "normal" wear... it is like no other car to drive....yes turbo lag takes getting used to but the kick you get when the boost comes on is awesome!! and altho they are more complicated and higher maintenace than normal cars they are NOT that bad!!! especially if you keep them stock do the regular maintenance and DONT modify the boost so it runs like a race care for 5.000 miles then goes bang!! I have kept the boost on mine at 0.8 Bar dumped the thermo reactors and it has been a reliable car for me!! but they are NOT for everyone so drive one before you buy one.Good luck

Bruce do the normal checks and if all is well enjoy a very special car.

George. What mods have you done to get to the 400. I would like more than I have now but want to maintain the reliability factor. I am planning on some over-the- winter upgrades B&B pipes HKS boost controller and Kokeln intercooler. I may do some cams but this is already a pricey christmass list.

btw chicks do dig it
david 89turbo cab

David,
I wish I could tell you all that has been done to my car, but my mechanic will (understandably) not tell me all. I know for sure that the fuel routing, pressure and injector are modified. The boost pressure is 0.97 max, with overboost (when you lift the gas quickly) to 1.05. The turbo pressure maintenance system (to keep the turbo spinning) is modified also. The wastegate muffler is gone in favor of a short 934 straight pipe.
The car has been dynoed at an estimated 395-405 Hp at the freewheel on a rolling dyno. It is very thirsty (over 40 liters/100Kms) at speeds over 125 mph. It still passes the smog tests, as they are done at idle here.
The boost starts to come at around 2800 rpm, and I'm getting 0.8 at around 3500rpm, and 0.97 from 4500-5000 on. I have a 934 boostgauge with telltale nedle to keep things in check.
The car is due for further modifications. My mechanic has found me a race inlet tract (modified group B) with a large group B intercooler. This will go in with modified cams, and some stainless collectors. We are hoping to get ca. 460 HP, with serious oil cooling.
The car has gone already 15000 miles so, and it doesn't use oil, and hasn't overheated yet. But I think we can go no further without a good safety margin, hence the modified cooling, bigger intercooler, and modified exhaust waiting in the shelves.
I may add that that the car was already modified at Weissach when new, as it's first owner was a racer who in his time finished third at Le Mans, with a 935. It has no rear wiper, less sound deadening, and it was blowing at 0.85 bar from the factory. The brake master cylinder is most probably larger, as the pedal travel is much shorter than on other 3.3 we know. The shock absorbers are way stiffer than standard. It also has 8 and 9 fuchs rims. It wighs about 1250 Kg ( 2750 lbs). I love to sneak up on 993 TTs and surprise the hell out of them :-)
The car is a '83 model. I can't tell you more than that, as I really dont know more.
Happy motoring, George

[This message has been edited by GeorgeK (edited 09-02-2000).]

Thanks George. That sounds like a very fun ride. I think that should be the warning for those thinking of getting one. YOU CAN NOT LEAVE IT ALONE. That and law enforcement/ lawyer expenese are your next worry High triple dig ticket + big $$$ = no arrest,jail time, no record.

sometime I will explain the "chicks dig it" line it was very funny


david 89turbocab

Thanks to all that responded..

I think I'll wait a year and get my 65 911 done, first then think about looking for a newer model.
A lot of good points where brought up in the posts.
One day I will get one...

Bruce