super light weight seats (10 lbs)

afterburn 549 · 11-21-2006, 01:53 PM

Some one pt. out my uneducated trauma here..
Awhile back there was a thread on light weight seats,, "lots of discussion" on how brand X might not be safe. Is that because the structure is suppose to save you in a wreck??? How ?? with roll bars, belts, whats the seat doing ??
Now to my elongated pt, Being I am physco. I have a huey helicopter seat.. weighs mabe 10 lbs. Worked for us in Nam. How ever I would like it to be at a slightly diff angle...I am going to duplicate 2 of these ...but back to the Q. where is the safety issue so I can maybe incorporate it into them ????

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Quote:

whats the seat doing ??

Holding your as* in one position w/ a modicum of support for your spine and neck

If the seat back moves whether because it's a moveable design or because a one piece cracked, it's not gonna be good, if the seat rips from the floor it's not gonna be good, if your neck snaps back too far it's not gonna be good.

afterburn 549 · 11-21-2006, 02:12 PM

well...How much of a hit "G" should they be able to take ?? at some pt the car will meet the seat if everything else holds...

Jack Olsen · 11-21-2006, 02:19 PM

Put another way, your belts keep you from being thrown forward into the windshield and dash while the seat keeps you from being thrown backwards into the roll bar or cage. There are enormous g-forces at play in an impact. I would not take chances with a seat designed for another application. Save weight in a place that isn't going to kill you, or get an FIA-approved shell.

DW SD · 11-21-2006, 02:40 PM

I read that the new Cobra CF seat is designed to withstand 65Gs of acceleration (deceleration). I would assume that includes driver or passenger loading.

I wouldn't want to be your test dummy in the event of an accident.

Unless you are setup to properly test, I would suggest, like Bill & Jack, that you do your R&D on a less vital product.

Doug

Jack Olsen · 11-21-2006, 03:09 PM

Schroth tests its belts for the FIA standard 30-mph frontal impact with a fixed object. At that low speed, a 165-pound driver is subject to 30 g as he decelerates. This puts more than 3100 pound load on each of the two pelvic belts. The upper torso creates a 1550 pound load on each of the two straps. The lower belts will stretch 3-4 inches in this impact.

In a 30 mph rear impact, I guess you could apply these figures to your seat and mounting apparatus. If it comes loose, imagine getting hit with a steel pipe with that amount of force.

afterburn 549 · 11-21-2006, 03:16 PM

I am here for the education as most....as soon as I figure out the criteria for my seats it will be done. ...that why I am asking.
So from the thread so far its the rear "hit" and other forces to keep one's spine aligned is what I have got so far...correct??
In other words I think seats weigh too much . form follows function and there is usually a better weigh (PUN) LOL .With out some investigation all things stay the same or get stagnant. i want to explore this a little...hope fully w.o. going dwn in flames...........................

lateapex911 · 03:54 PM

This is very dangerous territory, if you ask me.

Most sanctioning bodies either require FIA seating tags or they require a dedicated race seat that is securely fixed with brackets in the lower mount are AND the shoulder/torso area. This rule came about as a direct result of a rain race fatality at Lime Rock when a Porsche spun on the straight and backed into the barrier, snapping the front mounts, and the resultant seat movement broke the drivers neck.

Deformation in multiple hit scenarios, side impacts, as well as belt routing and reinforcement are all very critical to the design and fabrication of the seat.

In a stock car, the seat is required to do a certain amout of work...some cars actually use the seat to house the seat belts. It's no wonder they weigh 75 pounds or more in certain instances. In a light weight racing seat, it is expected to withstand the forces, in the case of an FIA cert. seat, of huge crashes using only the lower mounting points, as well as the forces of the belts pulling though the access holes.

There are lots of places to play around with fabrication, but this is something I would trust to those with the testing capability.

In a street car, the situation is complicated by the need for adjustibilty, which also adds weight. I imagine a Huey seat wasn't designed with any crash testing, and is made with weight in mind only.

(I've hit a few hard things in my race car, and it's short money to prepare up front, rather than convalesce later)

NY65912 · 11-21-2006, 04:19 PM

I'm running Cobra Imola Kevlar seats that weigh in at 14.33 lbs and are FIA approved. I don't know about you but when I'm coming down the straight at Limerock doing 120+ and am looking into BigBend I want my azz in a FIA everything!

Don't go for the big brakes or the fancy this or that, but SAFETY FIRST!

PS: I am the safety officer for my construction company, you only have one chance to survive in an accident!

afterburn 549 · 11-21-2006, 08:31 PM

now thats a interesting weight ! maybe I dont have to re invent the wheel. !!

lateapex911 · 11-22-2006, 08:32 AM

heck, I think there are carbon seats under ten out there that are FIA cert'ed.

Elombard · 11-22-2006, 10:25 AM

I dont know, I would think a helicopter seat would be designed for some pretty serious duty.

lateapex911 · 11-22-2006, 01:27 PM

I disagree. It was designed to hit cost targets, and way back in the 50s/60s. And a helicopter has much different dynamics than a car.

And....I imagine that the crash mode wasn't given the same hope for survival design standard that car racing seats are designed to. In other words, build it cheap, and ..."Oh well"...

hatpix · hatpix's Garage

I googled helicopter seat designs an some of the modern seat look like they are seriously heavy duty, armored, etc. My guess is your average FIA seat will not withstand a 30-06 bullet.

The only thing I see that's not ideal is that they offer no lateral support for the upper torso, which I think is essential for a race car. Regardless the "cool factor" of having a chopper seat in my car, I think I would rather have something that was designed for the purpose, like a nice Sparco EVO 2000.

afterburn 549 · 11-22-2006, 03:09 PM

taken fire ! in coming !! going dwn in flames !!

hatpix · hatpix's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by afterburn 549
taken fire ! in coming !! going dwn in flames !!

Not sure where Whidbey Island, Wa is but if I lived in Compton or South Central, I just might consider getting a seat from a Warthog or Apache...

afterburn 549 · 11-22-2006, 08:40 PM

That looks modifiable too !!! sighn me up, where do I get one ??

lateapex911 · 11-23-2006, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hatpix
...Regardless the "cool factor" of having a chopper seat in my car, I think I would rather have something that was designed for the purpose, like a nice Sparco EVO 2000.

Agreed, except for the "cool factor".....

The uses are SO different, I'd look at a helicopter seat and think that the guy was just trying to be flashy or blingy, and I'd roll my eyes. Unless he could convince me that it did everything a well designed Sparco/Recaro/Momo did, and better.

Helicopters pull Gs in different vectors, and rarely slide sideways into walls.