3.6 Conversion DME and Wiring Questions - Page 2

FenderGuy · 11-29-2006, 02:33 PM

Bill

I agree with you there should we have Jerry fab us one

johnsjmc · 11-29-2006, 03:50 PM

You can use the complete Carrera exhaust with HEs and muffler. The tube size is less than optimum. The 964 exhaust interferes with the 915 clutch lever. I am using the 993 HEs with a homemade copy of the "happy crab" using a dual in dual out 2 1/2"stainless Magnaflow muffler. The one pain is the need to rotate the ports on the pass side to use on a 964 engine. It makes one of the attaching nuts on the pass centre port impossible to install. A leak at the port still nags me today.I used the 993 cast heat crossover as the 964 tube is bigger and leaves less muffler space.

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

If you want heat, 993 or B&B are the 2 best solutions, I agree the Flowmaster is a good, but somewhat loud muffler choice, many like the Dynomax x flow mufflers they are supposed to be somewhat tamer sonicly

My Flowmaster/B&B/w/ 964 heat tubes on a 993 engine

Joeaksa · 11-29-2006, 07:34 PM

Bill,

You have dual outlets on that setup, correct? How is the noise on yours?

Before you ask, yes I did get the flanges flipped on the 993 HE's I got from you and just waiting until I get home to finally install them and work out an exhaust. Too much damm work! Need to retire like you did!

I have had a set of B&B's on the engine at one time but man are they a bear to get to some of the nuts. Have SSI's on there now with a "banana" muffler now and its working but not what I want.

Joe

William Miller · 10:19 AM

Need some help on the DME Relay Holder.
I have some white plastic relay holders fron the doner car.
It's pretty hard to get the terminals out of the holder.
I have one of the green terminal extractor tools and have been able to get some of the large spade terminals out (found out they are 6.3mm for Eagle Day) What's the trick on the small terminals.
Does anyone know what the small terminals look like.
Here are some pictures from our host:
964/993 DME relay:

William Miller · 10:25 AM

Looking at the Patrick Motorsports site, it looks like thay are using a 3.2 DME relay and holder for this.
The 3.2 relay has round spades (Or whatever you call them.)
I guess this is another option.

I already have the two other connectors and most of the wires needed from the doner car.

This relay holder sort of looks like the plug for the fresh air fan on my SC.

William Miller · 12-11-2006, 02:31 PM

I was able to identify the terminal ends (I took a guess looking at the pictures) in the Pet cataloge. For future reference this is on the 1991 C2, main group 9, Sub Group 2, Illistration 902-52.
Items 2 & 21 in the picture.
The larger blade terminal is 6.2mm wide female "flat connector" Part # 111-971-959
The small one is 999-652-456-22
They were not avalible here, but I got them ordered from Porsche by a parts place in Florida. They were very inexpensive.

They arrived a few days ago and they are exactly what I needed.

I pretty much have everything I need to make up the conversion harness.

BTW, I saw in a picture on another 3.6 thread that I'm courious about. It was a picture of big condensor which I think I'm supposed to have, but don't.
I looked it up and it's part #964.645.011.00 "suppressor condensor"
Anybody know what it's for and where it get's hooked up?
It's in the pet catalogue with the parts for the rear electrical box/fuse/relay panel. Illistration 901-05.
Thanks!

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Joeaksa
Bill,

You have dual outlets on that setup, correct? How is the noise on yours?

Before you ask, yes I did get the flanges flipped on the 993 HE's I got from you and just waiting until I get home to finally install them and work out an exhaust. Too much damm work! Need to retire like you did!

I have had a set of B&B's on the engine at one time but man are they a bear to get to some of the nuts. Have SSI's on there now with a "banana" muffler now and its working but not what I want.

Joe

Joe, you talken to me? If so, it's louder than most tracks allow these days. Heaven to me

brcorp · brcorp's Garage

Subscribing, cause I'm next.....

William Miller · 12-12-2006, 01:56 PM

Bumpo,
Anyone know about the big condensor mentioned above?
Thanks!

Porsche84 · Porsche84's Garage

It is not on my 3.6 conversion.

William Miller · 10:05 AM

I made some updates to the wiring diagram because I learned a few things from many people here which if I understand correctly I will pass on below:

1. V-Belt Minder:
The v-belt switch is a normally open switch (closed when the belt is there and open when it's missing). Because of this I needed to add a relay to make it light when the belt is missing.
The relay needs to have a normally closed terminal. (Not the typical normally open relay with 4 prongs.) I found it at NAPA. (I'll report the part # when I get a chance) The way it works is this:

)THIS WAS MODIFIED BELOW: THE SIGNAL FROM THE BELT MINDER IS 12V + when the belt is detected and the switch is closed. This signal is used to power the coil side of the relay. SEE BELOW:

2. A/C Idle Stabilization:
I learned from Steve W. and some others that the 964 DME does not increase the idle when the the A/C is turned on, but either switches maps or modifies the map to help prevent the idle speed from dipping when the A/C is turned on. This feature doesn't help the issue with Light Weight Flywheels, but will help me because I'm planning on running A/C. Steve said to ground the 3 pins on the DME when the A/C is running. I plan to do this with a normaly open relay that will be switched closed on the signal from the A/C temp switch that energizes the clutch on the compressor and powers the coil for the condensor fan relay. Steve said to try each one at a time after everything else is sorted out with the conversion.

3. Heater Blower Plan:
I found a few threads on adding footwell blowers to an SC or earlier car. I found that this is a common modification when people have backdated their heat. A few have done it with the 3.6 conversion and it makes a lot of sense for me while I have everything torn apart anyway. I learned that these fans were used on early 930's and Carerra's. I ordered 2 fans, the Turbo fan outlets (they have a single outlet instead of the "Y" shaped one) and the stock type resistor pac from dcauto.com. I have an extra 3 speed a/c fan switch which I plan to put where my useless fog light switch is now. (I'll make a harness because I think this will be cleaner than having the switch between the seats.)

4. Diagnostics wires: I decided to terminate these in a plug just in case I learn later that they will be helpful for troubleshooting. The troubleshooting guide in the 964 workshop manual is pretty good and you don't need the code reader for most of the tests.

DIAGRAM DELETED BECAUSE IT WAS MODIDIED (SEE BELOW)

William Miller · 12-20-2006, 12:51 PM

The air conditioning related pins are #'s 50, 40,41
This is mostly for reference.

William Miller · 12-20-2006, 01:00 PM

This is the capacitor I refered to above.
On the wiring diagram it's named "suppressor capacitor"
The red wire goes to the + terminal on the altinator and the brown to ground.

In Pet it's Part number 964-645-011-00 suppresor condensor

Can anyone confirm its purpose? Radio Noise suppresion?
Is it needed on an SC?
BTW, I don't have one and didn't see it in the doner car.
Where is it mounted?

William Miller · 12-20-2006, 01:27 PM

This sheet explains the extra connectors on the DME harness.
The plugs are used to select different maps on the OEM chip.
The Black plug should have a jumper with Tiptronic.
The White plug is to select different maps based on emission requirements. The blue and red wire is connected to terminal 39 on the dme.
This wire is jumped to battery voltage for USA and Japan (With Cats) (probably the leanest map per Steve W.)
This connector is left open for other countries with Cats.
The wire is jumped to ground for countries without Cats (Steve said probably those that still use leaded gas and probably is the same as open loop mode.
NOTE: On the wiring digram it shows a "bridge" which is plugged into the O2 sensor connector (part number 944.612.422.00)
I haven't figured out what it's purpose is.

Steve bassically said that the benifit of running open loop is a slightly stronger part throttle torque and response as the O2 sensor is not leaning out the acceleration mixtures, but fuel efficiency may decrease a bit. Again Steve said to get the conversion sorted out before tweeking these things. I also don't know if these have any effect on aftermarket chips. Meaning, I don't know what is changed on the aftermarket chips. Maybe all thes other maps are erased?

Anyway, I hope this info helps those who are courious, like me!

William Miller · 04-30-2007, 10:21 AM

I found that wire from the v-belt minder switch was 12V+ when the switch is closed (When the belt is present).
I originally thought this provided the ground for the coil.
I modified the circuit and diagram for this correction.

The relay is wired normally closed. In normal operation the power from the v-belt minder switch provides power to the coil holding the relay open thus the light is off. If the v-belt breaks, the power to the coil of the relay is cut, the relay closes and the light comes on. Unfortunately there is no bulb check when you turn the ignition switch on, but you can test the circuit by unhooking the connection at the v-belt switch in the engine compartment.
You can also feel / hear the relay click when the ignition is turned on. The DME relay clicks too.

Here is the revised diagram:

I've got the engine running, but the car is still on the rack pending a few other projects.
BTW, Although not road tested, the engine doesn't die when it comes back to idle after reving it up. I can hear that the fuel and or ignition is cut off during the decell, and it seems like it dips below normal idle speed but it seems that it catches itself fine.

I haven't tested the A/C compensation relay yet. That will come sometime in the future. Gotta get this thing on the road first!

drb930 · 01-22-2015, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Miller

This sheet explains the extra connectors on the DME harness.
The plugs are used to select different maps on the OEM chip.
The Black plug should have a jumper with Tiptronic.
The White plug is to select different maps based on emission requirements. The blue and red wire is connected to terminal 39 on the dme.
This wire is jumped to battery voltage for USA and Japan (With Cats) (probably the leanest map per Steve W.)
This connector is left open for other countries with Cats.
The wire is jumped to ground for countries without Cats (Steve said probably those that still use leaded gas and probably is the same as open loop mode.
NOTE: On the wiring digram it shows a "bridge" which is plugged into the O2 sensor connector (part number 944.612.422.00)
I haven't figured out what it's purpose is.

Steve bassically said that the benifit of running open loop is a slightly stronger part throttle torque and response as the O2 sensor is not leaning out the acceleration mixtures, but fuel efficiency may decrease a bit. Again Steve said to get the conversion sorted out before tweeking these things. I also don't know if these have any effect on aftermarket chips. Meaning, I don't know what is changed on the aftermarket chips. Maybe all thes other maps are erased?

Anyway, I hope this info helps those who are courious, like me!

Nice, I want to change my Tip to the manual map...