Valve Guides

Sorry about the question, but I am new at this porsche stuff. I am considering an 87 cab and the owner said the mechanic, at the cars last service interval, recommended replacement of the valve guides.What exactly does this entail? Is it a major/expensive service? I will have a PPI done to verify this. Thanks for any help!

MW

Agreed, you should get second opinion. Take the car out and drive it. Run it up to about 5 grand in third and let off the gas, let the engine wind down with clutch out and see if she smokes.

DEFINITELY have the PPI done...but not by the same mechanics who told him the guides needed to be replaced. That's a VERY expensive repair...some might argue that if that needs to be done, you might as well overhaul the entire engine.

How many miles are on the car?

The car has 113k on the odometer. Range for a top end rebuild has been 3-5k. Seems like this could be a car to pass on unless a second mechanic (like you suggest) deems that the valve guides are not prob.

Thanks,
Michael W.

Originally posted by Bill Wagner:
DEFINITELY have the PPI done...but not by the same mechanics who told him the guides needed to be replaced. That's a VERY expensive repair...some might argue that if that needs to be done, you might as well overhaul the entire engine.

How many miles are on the car?

The 5K figure is probably the more likely figure if it needs to be done...that's why many people say to just overhaul the whole thing...it's not that much more. Steer clear of someone that wants to do a "cheap" job where they take as many short cuts as possible (hence the lower figure). A lot of people have told me that repairs of this nature tend to "grow" in price once the work begins.

Unfortunately, at that type of mileage a valve job is a real possibility. On the other hand, it seems to me that some Porsche mechanics like to "sell" unnecessary services just because some readings are a little less than perfect, but not necessarily disasters.

I suppose the bright side of all of this is that the seller is being honest. Whether his mechanic is needs to be determined. If you do have a PPI done on it, don't let the mechanic doing the work know that any problems have been reported. You may even want to be present for the leak down test.

Good Luck,

Bill Wagner

Anyone contemplating a first-time purchase of a 911 should get a copy of Bruce Anderson's Porsche 911 Performance Handbook and read it cover-to-cover before signing the dotted line!!!

A bit of research beforehand will prepare you and answer many, many questions about what to look for, and what repairs will entail, should a major problem be detected.

It sounds like a top-end rebild/refresh job might be needed, and it needn't cost even $3K, if you do removal and disassembly work, and send out the heads to a qualified shop! I would also suggest getting Andial and Stoddard catalogs, as they contain useful info on rebuild components needed to 'freshen-up' an engine.

------------------
Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

What's the asking price of the car and what's the overall condition? If the price is low enough and the condition is excellent, then it might even justify the rebuild after the purchase.

The seller will sell for $16,000 final offer. The car is in very good condition overall. The clutch was replaced at 100k and everything else is in good shape. The only other problem w/the car is that one of the pins that holds the rear of the targa roof down is broken and needs to be replaced. Let me know your thougts on the value of this car!

Michael

Michael,

I think I might just go to the bank, take out 16 $1000 bills, and go pay the man a visit tomorrow, and offer him 15 of the bills, to see how bad he wants to get rid of the car! If he says no, take out the 16th bill and say "OK, lets go transfer the title at the county clerk's office!!!" ... before he changes his mind! It IS a great buy at that price! The broken Targa top pin is around $100 ... but it has the G50 transaxle ... GET THE CAR!!!

------------------
Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

Warren:

I've read MANY of your posts on this site and would like to say that I see you as one of the authorities on this site, but I think I would take exception to some of the advice you're offering. Here's why:

1. Michael has made no claims whatsoever of being a mechanical expert. I'm not knocking him, he simply hasn't made any such claims. Pulling off the heads, replacing guides, etc. etc. may seem like child's play to you, but to someone inexperienced, this could be a potential nightmare. I live in the D.C. area, and I've heard NIGHTMARES from those that have purchased 911s with engine problems, taken them in for work, and literally seen the bill jump anywhere from 2-4 times as much as the original estimate. IF Michael is prepared to do this work, sure it will be cheaper than a shop or dealership...but the only thing I remember him saying is that he's "new" to this Porsche stuff.

2. Has the PPI been done yet? As Bruce Anderson points out, the 3.2L Carerra's have been known for (sort of) valve problems. The OWNER is already saying this is a problem (how OFTEN do you run into an honest seller?) but how many other problems may exist that either his mechanic didn't report to him or simply wasn't aware of? Odds are VERY good that IF the valve problem was detected during a tune up (and it REALLY IS a problem) the mechanic didn't perform a check of every system in the car. How do you know the tranny doesn't have problems? How do you know the car doesn't have fuel delivery/emissions problems? How do you know the car doesn't need a brake job? Does the muffler/exhaust need replacing? Need I go further? The car NEEDS a PPI! ALL of these things cost money..a lot of money for a do-it-yourselfer, but even MORE for someone relying on a shop.

I don't own a 911 (still looking), but I've done my share of work on several different cars. Most of the high mileage 911s I've looked at usually looked great on the surface, but when I went down to the nitty-gritty, I've ended up walking away. I can point you at about 10 911s in the Northern Virginia area made between 1986 and 1993 (some with low mileage) that NEED in excess of $10,000.00 of work if done by a shop. $16,000.00 is NOT a good deal if the car needs that type of work.

Michael:

Get the PPI done, regardless of the price of the car, and see if it's really worth it. Don't let good looks deceive you!

Good Luck to ALL!

Bill Wagner

Bill I do agree with your words of caution. I also think that for many of us our 911's are affairs of the heart. Enter the relationship with your eyes open but do get involved.

Married to my turbo forever
david 89 turbo cab